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Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#81

Post by selfhoster1312 »

kalleboo wrote: post #77
selfhoster1312 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OS LTS support barely matters when planned obsolescence is baked in at the hardware level. Wearing parts (eg. SSD) are soldered on newer macs and there's intensive efforts to make sure even if you have the tools you can't repair it. Parts aren't available but if you get your hands on there's cryptographic parts pairing so it more or less can't be replaced: https://rossmanngroup.com/services/ssd-data-recovery/macbook.…

My MacBook Pro M1 is 5 years old now and the SSD wear level is at 4%. SSD wear is not a problem for normal users. Meanwhile Apple's standard OS support period is 7 years, that's a much more imminent limit. Not saying that I support non-user-replaceable SSDs, but if your goal is reducing e-waste, there are more impactful changes to make.

Thanks, that's a fair data point. Although i'm sure it depends on actual user workloads.

I'm not saying that I support closed-source firmware, locked bootloaders, or even that replacing SSDs is the one true path to sustainability.

I believe it's a whole field and we shouldn't tolerate compromises on any level. It should be 100% illegal in any civilized country to sell the kind of lame hardware we have today. It should be 100% repairable, 100% open bootloader & free firmware, 100% public tech docs/datasheets. Original manufacturer OS support is not insignificant, but i believe it's only significant because we have so little control/understanding of the hardware/software stack.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#82

Post by fooker »

monegator wrote: post #72
gigatexal wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if amd or intel caught up the Apple hardware is just built better and is far higher quality.

i snatched a lenovo yoga slim aura with a core 5 226 for 650 euro. Its build quality is on par if not better than the colleague's macbook, it's pretty good for working, runs fedora natively, battery last at least 12 hours unless i'm playing games.

The build quality is not even close.

And macbooks are reaching 18-20 hours usage on battery nowadays, I have stopped carrying the power adapter most of the time.

Of course it’s significantly more expensive, but you do get what you pay for.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#83

Post by znpy »

ksec wrote: post #41
znpy wrote: post #38

> Please stop Thinking Different Considering how much better m-series CPUs are, i’d say actually keep thinking different.

AFAWK, M6 CPU is a die shrink of M5, so unless something M7 present that will significantly improve CPU performance. The ARM C1 CPU core that is available to everyone has pretty much matched up to Apple. And that is all things included from performance, power, die size etc.

And?

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#84

Post by m4rtink »

throwa356262 wrote: post #51

Everyone is free to work on whatever they want, but... I wish the amount of time and brain power spent on this project was instead used to work on something more friendly to the Linux community. For example to improve Strix Halo GPU and NPU support.

Really seems like the worlds most complex and intriguing sudoku - it would all go away if Apple bothered to properly document their hardware.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#86

Post by hnaccount_rng »

selfhoster1312 wrote: post #81
kalleboo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My MacBook Pro M1 is 5 years old now and the SSD wear level is at 4%. SSD wear is not a problem for normal users. Meanwhile Apple's standard OS support period is 7 years, that's a much more imminent limit. Not saying that I support non-user-replaceable SSDs, but if your goal is reducing e-waste, there are more impactful changes to make.

Thanks, that's a fair data point. Although i'm sure it depends on actual user workloads. I'm not saying that I support closed-source firmware, locked bootloaders, or even that replacing SSDs is the one true path to sustainability. I believe it's a whole field and we shouldn't tolerate compromises on any level. It should be 100% illegal in any civilized country to sell the kind of lame hardware we have today. It shoul…

You have trade offs though. Both with added effort during the development but also just physical limits with the amount of additional losses you have over clicked vs soldered connections

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#87

Post by maccard »

darkwater wrote: post #66
dmitrygr wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"up to 9 hours for light web browsing or everyday tasks" that is 1/3 the battery life of a macbook in the same use case. seems completely incomparable

I have a M1 Pro from work and it surely won't last that while working. Throw some video calls at it and working outside (so, screen at the brightest level) and at the end of the work day I have to plug it in

Your M1 Pro is 5 years old presumably?

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#88

Post by mike97 »

Mashimo wrote: post #71
Lio wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the hardware is capable but the Linux distros aren’t quite there yet? Fingers crossed for them then. I love the idea of a Framework laptop but I’m only interested in Linux performance.

> but the Linux distros aren’t quite there yet? I just went by what Framework said on release a few weeks or month back. Maybe you can find a more up to date Linux test somewhere. And I bet you can soon get a ThinkPad with the same intel chip, that should have similar battery life.

> And I bet you can soon get a ThinkPad with the same intel chip, that should have similar battery life.

Yes you can, speaking from experience. I have the T14 gen 7 with the 75 wh battery, and the 356H CPU, it only uses 4-6w/hour when coding with a lot of browser tabs open, a headless VM running, docker containers and so on, online meetings is about 6-8w/hour, this is under Linux, with default power setting from Opensuse.

It can easily last more than 10 working hours, I limit mine to 80% charge as it's more than enough for when I'm on the go.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#89

Post by LoganDark »

foltik wrote: post #67
LoganDark wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is Apple we're talking about. What may be the bare minimum for you was a lot of work for them. Work they could have passed up and we would've all had to simply deal with it. They do that all the time, and there's nothing we can do about it. But here they didn't. Here they did "the bare minimum" to allow custom operating systems on their newer hardware. That should be commended. Yes, we should celebrate that hard…

Being able to run “custom” code is the default state of computers, and doesn’t require additional effort on the part of the manufacturer. How do you think they got their own code on there? Apple has just not spent effort in the opposite direction to lock it down in this case. That’s not something to celebrate, we should demand it as the bare minimum, ideally via the law.

It literally takes effort to reach Apple's level of platform security while simultaneously having escape hatches designed to allow custom code without compromising the trust in the first-party code. Even simple, arbitrary decisions like having the secure boot state be per-operating-system rather than platform-wide take effort. Keep in mind Apple designed everything from the ground up including the silicon, so they did not just pull a part off the shelf that already can execute any code and then lock it down, they took their already very locked-down iPhone/iPad SoCs and specifically re-engineered the chain of trust to have these escape hatches while preserving the trust in macOS. Very careful engineering and not the "default state" of anything.

There are a lot of shortcuts they could have taken to leave us with less freedom and they did not take those shortcuts. For that, I am grateful.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#90

Post by wishfish »

stiray wrote: post #69

I hope they will support M4 soon, I cant stand macos and its desire to be different than everything else by custom keyboard shortcuts etc. After 2 years of usage, I still have issues with basic actions like copy paste. edit: omg, writing this post, i checked if there is some way to use linux shortcuts and there is (Kanesh/KMonad or Karabiner-Elements). Maybe my suffering will finally stop.

What I did was to simply remap Command to Control in the built-in keyboard settings. I don't know if that would solve your problems with shortcuts, but it solved mine. Muscle memory remains intact. The physical key combos on the Mac are now largely the same as on Windows or Linux.
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