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Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#61

Post by Lio »

Mashimo wrote: post #50
dmitrygr wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but at the rate that Intel and AMD have been catching up on power efficiency Have they? What AMD or Intel laptop with Linux on it can hold a candle to and M4 air or an M4max pro? Genuinely curious, cause I found none...

Framework 13 pro with new Intel chips claims to run 20h of 4k Netflix stream, or 17h of light web browsing @250 nits. That said these numbers are with windows.

So the hardware is capable but the Linux distros aren’t quite there yet?

Fingers crossed for them then. I love the idea of a Framework laptop but I’m only interested in Linux performance.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#62

Post by selfhoster1312 »

benoau wrote: post #25
dgunay wrote: post #21

I have immense respect for the incredible work that the Asahi team does, but at the rate that Intel and AMD have been catching up on power efficiency I wonder whether anyone will really _have_ to run Linux on M series laptops. There was a clear case for it back when Apple silicon absolutely dominated anything else you could buy but with Panther Lake I'm not so sure that Apple's lead will continue to be big enough to…

It depends on how long Apple want to support the devices, if the support matches the longevity of the devices maybe nobody really needs Asahi. I believe all Intel Macs have received their final macOS version now so it is almost time for Apple to make that decision for the M1 generation. I think an M1 Pro, Max or Ultra (or even an M1 with 16GB of RAM) still has many good years left.

OS LTS support barely matters when planned obsolescence is baked in at the hardware level. Wearing parts (eg. SSD) are soldered on newer macs and there's intensive efforts to make sure even if you have the tools you can't repair it.

Parts aren't available but if you get your hands on there's cryptographic parts pairing so it more or less can't be replaced: https://rossmanngroup.com/services/ssd-data-recovery/macbook...

Overall, i wouldn't count on "many good years left".

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#63

Post by selfhoster1312 »

regexorcist wrote: post #57
oblio wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wait several years for full Linux hardware compatibility I'm not convinced it's only "several years". Asahi was launched in January 2021. So 5 and a half years ago. Asahi, as far as I can tell, supports most of M1 and M2 features, so generations launched in November 2020 (6 years ago) and June 2022 (4 years ago). I would be very surprised if a decade from now the story won't still be the same thing: 90% of features…

> 90% of features for systems half a decade old This can be a good tradeoff. An M1 Ultra still runs circles around 90% of consumer hardware sold today, and with Linux it has easily another 10+ years. Now support for M3 is coming. > Asahi is doing incredible work but it's still 5 people in a garage vs the huge corporation. Not sure why the "vs" scenario, this is a project that makes no promises. And I think they do ha…

> This can be a good tradeoff.

That's a good tradeoff for durable hardware with available spare parts. That's not a good tradeoff for hardware that was designed so it cannot be repaired, such as newer Macs.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#64

Post by prmoustache »

dmitrygr wrote: post #43
oblio wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD Strix Halo?

"up to 9 hours for light web browsing or everyday tasks" that is 1/3 the battery life of a macbook in the same use case. seems completely incomparable

Who works 27h straight far away from a power or usb outlet?

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#65

Post by raybb »

dgunay wrote: post #21

I have immense respect for the incredible work that the Asahi team does, but at the rate that Intel and AMD have been catching up on power efficiency I wonder whether anyone will really _have_ to run Linux on M series laptops. There was a clear case for it back when Apple silicon absolutely dominated anything else you could buy but with Panther Lake I'm not so sure that Apple's lead will continue to be big enough to…

That's fair but also think about the ewaste.

I'm still hoping one of these mega AI LLMs will figure out how to install Linux on the many old iPads that become nearly useless after Apple stops updating them and you can't install new apps.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#66

Post by darkwater »

dmitrygr wrote: post #43
oblio wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD Strix Halo?

"up to 9 hours for light web browsing or everyday tasks" that is 1/3 the battery life of a macbook in the same use case. seems completely incomparable

I have a M1 Pro from work and it surely won't last that while working. Throw some video calls at it and working outside (so, screen at the brightest level) and at the end of the work day I have to plug it in

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#67

Post by foltik »

LoganDark wrote: post #34
oblio wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tremendous efforts Tremendous efforts would be to publish reference manuals for all their hardware components. Apple is doing the bare minimum, which is to not build 10km tall walls around its walled garden. But in the modern day of walled gardens, that's viewed as generosity.

This is Apple we're talking about. What may be the bare minimum for you was a lot of work for them. Work they could have passed up and we would've all had to simply deal with it. They do that all the time, and there's nothing we can do about it. But here they didn't. Here they did "the bare minimum" to allow custom operating systems on their newer hardware. That should be commended. Yes, we should celebrate that hard…

Being able to run “custom” code is the default state of computers, and doesn’t require additional effort on the part of the manufacturer. How do you think they got their own code on there? Apple has just not spent effort in the opposite direction to lock it down in this case. That’s not something to celebrate, we should demand it as the bare minimum, ideally via the law.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#68

Post by pmontra »

prmoustache wrote: post #64
dmitrygr wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"up to 9 hours for light web browsing or everyday tasks" that is 1/3 the battery life of a macbook in the same use case. seems completely incomparable

Who works 27h straight far away from a power or usb outlet?

Probably nobody and I remember when a phone battery lasted one week: nevertheless sometimes we forgot to charge and we run out of battery. So a long lasting battery is good, too long lasting is a waste, which maybe it's your point.

However nowadays it could mean running some agents all day long (remote models) and plug in to power only at the end of the day.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#69

Post by stiray »

I hope they will support M4 soon, I cant stand macos and its desire to be different than everything else by custom keyboard shortcuts etc.

After 2 years of usage, I still have issues with basic actions like copy paste.

edit: omg, writing this post, i checked if there is some way to use linux shortcuts and there is (Kanesh/KMonad or Karabiner-Elements). Maybe my suffering will finally stop.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#70

Post by strbean »

stiray wrote: post #69

I hope they will support M4 soon, I cant stand macos and its desire to be different than everything else by custom keyboard shortcuts etc. After 2 years of usage, I still have issues with basic actions like copy paste. edit: omg, writing this post, i checked if there is some way to use linux shortcuts and there is (Kanesh/KMonad or Karabiner-Elements). Maybe my suffering will finally stop.

Counterpoint: OSX has the only sane copy paste shortcuts. The linux standard of "sometimes ctrl-c/v, sometimes shift-ctrl-c/v, and if you mess up you might kill your task" is preposterous.
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