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How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

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Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#831

Post by gpvos »

petra wrote: post #392
bambax wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I used to sell objects on Amazon in Europe. You can sell from just one country, but then each sale outside of that country is an "export" that triggers high fees. For sales to be "local", products need to be stored in warehouses in each country. But that in turn means the owner of said products (the seller) has to be registered for VAT in that country, and submitting annual reports in each country's language. I…

Let's say I'm a German small business owner. Tomorrow Europe becomes a single market. How do I compete with a similar business but from a country where business costs are significantly lower ?

Service in the local language, quick delivery, a local place where people can actually come by to buy or pick up things.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#832

Post by stefs »

m000 wrote: post #747

I've been following the PPWR in news and social media. Everybody is lamenting about the micro-enterprises that see their business squashed, but mostly because they are involved in one. I do empathize with them and really want to see these small business surviving and thriving. But then, in the context of discussion, nobody asks what matters: Cui bono? To me, this looks like a direct handout to Amazon and similar (big…

this is addressed in "Solution #3: Allow marketplaces to represent and manage micro-enterprises collectively as if it were a single producer."

so apparently, what you are describing is not what's actually happening.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#833

Post by izacus »

antiloper wrote: post #344
mrtksn wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always like this, EU is in urgent need of becoming a country in some form and local government deal with local stuff only. It shows up in the stats, citizens almost always trust EU more than their governments and want EU to have more power but all this means those local governments becoming less important and therefore no one is really pushing for it. Fingers crossed Trump invades Greenland so things can start m…

> It's always like this, EU is in urgent need of becoming a country in some form and local government deal with local stuff only. The lesson is the opposite: The EU needs LESS power, not more. If the member states didn't have a cartel to tyrannize their collective population, this regulation could never have happened. Any single country that would try to enforce this would be on its own.

No, we absolutely don't need to give more power to Orbans and other corrupt selfish pricks across Europe to line their pockets at everyones expense and the future of Europe.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#834

Post by izacus »

rickdeckard wrote: post #773

As I keep reading about "no prior warning", "effective immediately", "nothing being planned ahead", etc.: 1. This regulation was SIGNED in Dec.2024 [0], the average lead-time for the final document is 13-17 MONTHS, so work on this regulation started in 2023. 2. The law went into effect in Feb.2025 and is only being ENFORCED from Aug.2026 [0] 3. The owner of this regulation is the Directorate-General for Environment (…

Blatant lies about everything EU does have become pretty much a normal state of things on HackerNews and social media nowadays.

There are millions of dollars (and rubles) pumped into anti-EU propaganda that fuel this.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#835

Post by Asraelite »

germandiago wrote: post #765
ken666 wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you move to, if I can ask?

Two countries in South East Asia (one is Singapore) to operate. The business is meant to be b2b SaaS which is quite global. But if I lived in Spain... omg I do not want even to imagine how they would try to prosecute me. So I do not live there and problem solved.

Why are you unwilling to say the other country?

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#836

Post by pembrook »

stymaar wrote: post #821
eastbound wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Up to the governments to require the split-up of companies which become too large. Up to the governments to avoid corruption. "The bribe was too seducing" is not a valid defense for citizens. The fact the gouvernements have an armed branch to enforce hegemony makes it more required, not more forgivable.

Both passive corruption (accepting a bribe) and active corruption (giving a bribe) are a problem. “But the officials accepted it” is not a valid way to discount Amazon from their nefarious practices.

Please cite ANY evidence that Amazon, Epstein, Aliens, etc. had anything to do with this particular EU packaging nightmare...and that it wasn't wholly due to the bike shedding nature of a massive incomprehensible bureaucracy.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#837

Post by ccozan »

tecleandor wrote: post #798
logronoide wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, you have never dealt with Amazon as a merchant. You still need to be compliant with PPWR, no matter you sell on Amazon, eBay, Aliexpress or the street corner.

But one of those is not like the others. If you sell on Amazon, via the "Fulfilled by Amazon" system... Wouldn't be Amazon the one required to comply with PPWR? They're putting the stuff in boxes and all that stuff... (I have no idea)

No absolutely no. We were selling some electronic stuff on Amazon. We were doing good. But then this came, the registration that become mandatory, took 3 months instead of 3 weeks and then they had no rules and deleted saying our device is not the right category. We closed shop after spending time and money. The system is horrenduos and has not stopped the chinese stuff on the Amazon at all.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#838

Post by dvdkon »

ShadowOfThePit wrote: post #815
teiferer wrote: post #767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at what I responded to then you see that it was about every country having their own rules. "More EU" would mean harmonizing them in the sense that they are all the same and you'd have a single regulatory body. I don't see how less EU would make this particular problem any easier. It would certainly give you an even harder time to deal with 20+ states that all impose import bureaucracy. That's exactly wha…

What about the argument of these regulations not existing in the first place were it not for the EU?

Without the EU you wouldn't have a single set of annoying overly-bureaucratic bloc-wide regulation for trade between member states, you'd have a bunch of bilateral agreements between individual countries. You might not be paying a new tax to the EU, but instead you'd pay much more for your postal service to file customs paperwork based on declarations you'd have to write. And I'd guess countries would still want you to have a local representative for a bunch of things, not to mention compliance with tens of slightly-different safety standards (think CE).

Maybe it wouldn't be that much worse, but certainly not better than what we have today.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#839

Post by rramon »

ccozan wrote: post #837
tecleandor wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But one of those is not like the others. If you sell on Amazon, via the "Fulfilled by Amazon" system... Wouldn't be Amazon the one required to comply with PPWR? They're putting the stuff in boxes and all that stuff... (I have no idea)

No absolutely no. We were selling some electronic stuff on Amazon. We were doing good. But then this came, the registration that become mandatory, took 3 months instead of 3 weeks and then they had no rules and deleted saying our device is not the right category. We closed shop after spending time and money. The system is horrenduos and has not stopped the chinese stuff on the Amazon at all.

Did you store your Amazon listed product on Amazon in their warehouse or send it out from your home or from a supplier?

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#840

Post by germandiago »

x0x0 wrote: post #803
gib444 wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So 0.1%-0.2% of property value annually. You're highlighting how amazingly low that is right? In the UK (edit: England) unoccupied council tax charges can be in the region of £3000-8000/year (200% of the normal council tax bill)

Yeah, a $800k property paying 0.2% or $1600/year is... seems low for the provision of roads, schools, firefighters, etc.

> seems low for the provision of roads, schools, firefighters

well, not so low if you think that for roads they get 24 billion + 16 billion from highways + car taxes (car registration and others) and the maintenance of roads is 7 billion per year and they are undermaintained.

You forgot also all the money that goes to subsidizing votes and unnecessary positions. In Spain, depending on who you ask, the "comunidades autónomas" expenses are valued between 30 billion and 90 billion per year and I can tell you a lot of it is totally unnecessary. Or the central government. One or the other. There is duplication, which equals to legal corruption. Most countries have some of this but I think the case of Spain is relatively worrying.

You can ask about the firefighters, army, police, etc. to people from Ceuta or people from Valencia (where I am from). The 5th day after the disaster a french firefighter arrived to help and he was shocked to see that no spanish firefighters had arrived yet.

There is a reason why I do not like taxes, but there is even a more reasonable reason about me not wanting to pay them in Spain when I see how they are spent. Bc I still have to pay taxes somewhere anyway...

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