How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs • Hacker News Board

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#821

Post by stymaar » Tue, Aug 25, 2026, 9:13 AM UTC

eastbound wrote: post #818

freehorse wrote: post #805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When big companies have the resources to lobby and pass regulations (EU or country wide level) it is hard to separate these two, in particular when there are long-lasting policies that consistently disadvantage smaller entrepreneurs/small property owners disproportionally. I think it is fair to point criticism to government/eu, but it also fair to point who actually benefits (intentionally or even not) from these.

Up to the governments to require the split-up of companies which become too large. Up to the governments to avoid corruption. "The bribe was too seducing" is not a valid defense for citizens. The fact the gouvernements have an armed branch to enforce hegemony makes it more required, not more forgivable.

Both passive corruption (accepting a bribe) and active corruption (giving a bribe) are a problem.

“But the officials accepted it” is not a valid way to discount Amazon from their nefarious practices.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#822

Post by deno » Tue, Aug 25, 2026, 9:13 AM UTC

simgt wrote: post #809

deno wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to do double entry bookkeeping and prepare annual financial statements for all of those you've mentioned including UK. In addition, you cannot register LTD in Ireland yourself, the Company's secretary must be a different person. So either you are now in business with a friend or you pay someone. For any other member country you also run into a language barrier. Polish "Sp. z o.o." has ~1150€ (5000 PLN) minim…

> It's much easier to just register US LLC instead at this point. However if you want to do anything physical not digital you end up having to register and do taxes in your resident country anyway. How does remaining digital help here? My understanding was that you'd still be operating a foreign company so the country you reside in is able to claim taxes, regardless of what kind of business you do.

You're right I got ahead of myself a bit there.

Yes, you need to pay personal income tax in your tax resident country but that's much easier than formalized bookkeeping and corporate income tax (assuming your LLC is DE which is the default). Also for other taxes like VAT you have to register for and pay those regardless of where your company is registered.

US LLC has no formal bookkeeping requirements but you still need to report distributions and contributions to IRS annually (via fax or certified letter), submit annual statements to your state (but those are just hey I'm still alive not financial statements, they are even free in some states like Montana) and maintain registered agent but that's like $50/year. It's crazy just how easy it is.

The digital part is just about what your business can realistically do without it having local or at least EU based presence in some form.

For once you'll have issues with dealing with local businesses and EU marketplaces rather than government.

For example eBay account is basically impossible without having US address and resident VPN. And you'll constantly worry about getting banned, which is already a worry even if you are legitimate local based business since they too big to have to care about customer support like most big corps.

If you're just selling software or something like that it's much easier. The more you go into physical goods or services realm the more hurdles you will have. You can't hire people for example without having a branch or similar. Same for real estate or some equipment like cars.

Also for some services every local business you invoice will potentially have tax withholding to deal with. This is in particular a problem in Poland which has the strictest tax withholding regulations.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#823

Post by stymaar » Tue, Aug 25, 2026, 9:17 AM UTC

mstaoru wrote: post #190

I don't know if this EU regulation will work or not (most likely not), but I can share how it is done in China (where package volume is orders of magnitude higher). China identifies "choke points" most packages pass: large platforms and logistics companies. Yes, Chinese e-commerce is more centralized on Alibaba/JD/PDD etc, but there are actually much more logistics companies in China than in EU. They also do not intr…

> They also do not introduce these regulations "from tomorrow" (well, sometimes they do, but it's a different topic). E.g. the non-degradable plastic regulation was issued in 2020 to come in effect in 2025. This gives time to prepare and implement (unlike EU border controls mess...)

The EU does that most of the time, and you have to add the duration of the European legislative process (~2 years in average) so it's hard to say companies don't have time to adapt.

The problem is that companies have repeatedly used “not adapting” as a strategy to postpone changes. The plan is quite simple: you don't adapt in time. Then the business lobby will repeat how unprepared the industry is and how they need a delay to prepare. Rince and repeat.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#824

Post by dreadnip » Tue, Aug 25, 2026, 9:18 AM UTC

m000 wrote: post #747

I've been following the PPWR in news and social media. Everybody is lamenting about the micro-enterprises that see their business squashed, but mostly because they are involved in one. I do empathize with them and really want to see these small business surviving and thriving. But then, in the context of discussion, nobody asks what matters: Cui bono? To me, this looks like a direct handout to Amazon and similar (big…

What stops a person from starting a packaging/shipping business, paying the fees to ship and handle waste in all 27 euro countries and then charging customers a couple of cents for this service?

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#825

Post by jorisw » Tue, Aug 25, 2026, 9:20 AM UTC

mordae wrote: post #760

m000 wrote: post #747

I've been following the PPWR in news and social media. Everybody is lamenting about the micro-enterprises that see their business squashed, but mostly because they are involved in one. I do empathize with them and really want to see these small business surviving and thriving. But then, in the context of discussion, nobody asks what matters: Cui bono? To me, this looks like a direct handout to Amazon and similar (big…

It is not. Big European business always get what they want. Which tends to be maintaining status quo.

Blanket statement, no backup

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#826

Post by izacus » Tue, Aug 25, 2026, 9:21 AM UTC

RandomLensman wrote: post #408

psychoslave wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such a thing as "representative democracy", that’s antinomic bullshit throw at people to lower it down to powerless populace. Either citizens have the power, exercise it continuously in practice and are supplied with everything it takes to assume that role properly with all the duties it implies, or there is no democracy beyond empty words.

Has such a system ever existed anywhere? How would citizens even have the time?

Funny how this questioning of democracy never shows up in topics about USA, UK or any other country - it's always EU that gets assaulted by sudden political theorists despite mirroring pretty much every other democracy on the planet.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#827

Post by jorisw » Tue, Aug 25, 2026, 9:23 AM UTC

mike_hearn wrote: post #787

m000 wrote: post #747

I've been following the PPWR in news and social media. Everybody is lamenting about the micro-enterprises that see their business squashed, but mostly because they are involved in one. I do empathize with them and really want to see these small business surviving and thriving. But then, in the context of discussion, nobody asks what matters: Cui bono? To me, this looks like a direct handout to Amazon and similar (big…

Amazon doesn't care about guys like Lectronz, they're far too small, and the EU Commission really doesn't care about Amazon. They're openly antagonistic to US tech firms. Occam's Razor applies here. These regulations exist because the EU is 10,000+ civil servants writing whatever laws they want with no meaningful democratic accountability (this sort of thing is nobody's priority). They love creating new laws, they lo…

> that Brexit was an unrepeatable disaster (which it wasn't, check the data for yourself).

OK thanks I'll go find and check the data to back up your claim

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#828

Post by izacus » Tue, Aug 25, 2026, 9:24 AM UTC

graemep wrote: post #124

troupo wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you've described Greece as a bunch of scheming petulant children. "Our plan to be inaccountable didn't work, so we'll try a different scheme instead". And yes, it's a huge problem. That's why I called the situation unwinnable.

They could neither fix the problem with the policy tools a country with its own currency would have, nor did they have the automatic support from a central budget a region or state of a country would have.

They couldn't fix the problem because they were a corrupt country refusing to face their reality and which leadership decided to blame EU for not pumping more money into their pockets instead of fixing the structural problems of their rotting country.

Destroying their peoples lives with inflation so they could continue the parade would be even worse for both Greece and EU as a whole.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#829

Post by piltdownman » Tue, Aug 25, 2026, 9:25 AM UTC

fallingbananna wrote: post #286

mstaoru wrote: post #190

I don't know if this EU regulation will work or not (most likely not), but I can share how it is done in China (where package volume is orders of magnitude higher). China identifies "choke points" most packages pass: large platforms and logistics companies. Yes, Chinese e-commerce is more centralized on Alibaba/JD/PDD etc, but there are actually much more logistics companies in China than in EU. They also do not intr…

>Could EU just ask DHL/Hermes/whatever to charge an additional €1 "for recycling"? Yes, but... Within EU we already pay ~€3 for packages from China. And in Austria we will soon pay additional ~€2 for every delivered package. And 20% VAT. Edit: I am pretty sure at least some part of these already contribute towards recycling. The goal here is likely not just to get more funding for recycling, but rather to use materia…

In Ireland, the National Postal Service (An Post) charges €6.95 processing on top of the €3 Customs Charge. An additional €2 handling fee per product is expected in November 2026. All subject to 23% Vat.

So we go from €3 to about €15 a package ordering from the UK. The country we have a visa-less Common Travel Area exclusive from Schengen, without a land or sea border.

You could feasibly pay less accompanying such a package in an Uber from Northern Ireland to Ireland (e.g. UK->EU).

Joined up thinking at its finest to benefit the Benelux at the expense of the periphery.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#830

Post by izacus » Tue, Aug 25, 2026, 9:25 AM UTC

mpweiher wrote: post #199

A couple of things to note: 1. The EU commission wanted a single central registry 2. It was the member states, via the Council of Ministers, that torpedoed this. 3. The EU now advises its member states to not implement/enforce this 4. Until the correction, which is on its way, can be fully enacted. So the same old same old: member states do shitty stuff and blame the EU.

Meanwhile in a neighbouring conversation thread people are attacking Van Der Leyen as she's at fault for democratic member states torpedoing the good approach.

Apparently it's undemocratic when elected governments of their countries destroy a good solution and then blame others.