The EU is de-facto controlled by lobbyists. And they don't want the EU to be fixed.
How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs
771–780 of 1001 posts
Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs
#772I've been following the PPWR in news and social media. Everybody is lamenting about the micro-enterprises that see their business squashed, but mostly because they are involved in one. I do empathize with them and really want to see these small business surviving and thriving. But then, in the context of discussion, nobody asks what matters: Cui bono? To me, this looks like a direct handout to Amazon and similar (big…
This will directly stop Irish based people shopping on Amazon as the Irish Amazon is useless and everyone buys from Amazon UK. These fees are going to change that big time so it’s not all in favor of Amazon
Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs
#773As I keep reading about "no prior warning", "effective immediately", "nothing being planned ahead", etc.:
1. This regulation was SIGNED in Dec.2024 [0], the average lead-time for the final document is 13-17 MONTHS, so work on this regulation started in 2023.
2. The law went into effect in Feb.2025 and is only being ENFORCED from Aug.2026 [0]
3. The owner of this regulation is the Directorate-General for Environment (DG-ENV), which consists of members from many European Countries [1], closely working with local representatives those local government assigned to work in the EU.
This is not a blame on anyone in EU not knowing about this (!)
The point is that NOTHING was rushed here by the EU. Local representatives of the countries had PLENTY of time to contribute and influence the regulation, PLENTY of time to consult the public and local experts to work out the best local solution, PLENTY of time to prepare locally for the enforcement.
If there's a feeling that this wasn't done, then the pressure needs to be put on the LOCAL government.
It is too popular in local politics to frame the EU as an "external force" outside of anyone's influence of which the country is suffering from, while celebrating yourself for everything actually achieved by the Union of the European countries.
--> If citizens don't reject "Anti EU" sentiments and scapegoat-narratives from local governments and political parties, and demand the acknowledgement, participation and responsibility of procedures in the European Union, the pressure is not applied at the point where the problem can be resolved.
[0] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=OJ:L_202...
[1] https://commission.europa.eu/about/departments-and-executive...
Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs
#774Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thats a stretch of the term "field". Are they also in the field of making money and the field of working within European law?
Yes, of course. They need to be aware of regulations in all aspects of their business (manufacturing electronics, shipping, consumer warranty, and taxation seem applicable).
No one can reasonable think that someone who makes a few hundred artisan sales a year and ships them within the bloc should be monitoring what rules and regulations are coming down the pipe.
Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs
#775Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is enforceable and the financial punishment is severe. There's no US’s LLC equivalent in EU, you basically only have C-Corp/Inc. equivalents (much more expensive to start and operate, both because of accounting and corporation income tax), so most small sellers in EU end up fully liable with their own wealth for the ridiculous up to 200,000€ penalties. Chinese sellers don’t care, sure, but if you live in EU you do…
> much more expensive to start and operate, both because of accounting and corporation income tax Assumption. It depends on the country. I know in the UK I opened my limited company for £20 and there is no requirement to have an accountant prepare accounts at my size (and it's simple enough to do yourself). Ok UK is no longer EU, but as I understand Ireland LTD, Latvia SIA, Estonia OU and Poland sp. z.o.o. are simila…
You need to do double entry bookkeeping and prepare annual financial statements for all of those you've mentioned including UK.
In addition, you cannot register LTD in Ireland yourself, the Company's secretary must be a different person. So either you are now in business with a friend or you pay someone.
For any other member country you also run into a language barrier.
Polish "Sp. z o.o." has ~1150€ (5000 PLN) minimal capital requirement.
Registering entity with corporation tax requirement in any other country also means you would need to defend its tax residency (practically impossible if you don't actually do business there) or you have to pay corporation tax in the country you are actually operating in. It's doable but now you are dealing with two different tax authorities and potentially pay taxes in different currency and you can't have books in multiple currencies so get to have lots of fun.
It's much easier to just register US LLC instead at this point. However if you want to do anything physical not digital you end up having to register and do taxes in your resident country anyway. But you can avoid corporation tax at least and keep limited liability.
Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs
#776I don't know if this EU regulation will work or not (most likely not), but I can share how it is done in China (where package volume is orders of magnitude higher). China identifies "choke points" most packages pass: large platforms and logistics companies. Yes, Chinese e-commerce is more centralized on Alibaba/JD/PDD etc, but there are actually much more logistics companies in China than in EU. They also do not intr…
> This gives time to prepare and implement (unlike EU border controls mess...) The Entry/Exit System was supposed to start in 2024[0], it was delayed to 2025, then it was delayed to 2026. They also changed from a full turn on to an incremental rollout over 180 days[1]. At some point you have to turn on things and "bugs will shake out", you can't delay things forever. [0] https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press…
...this is not the approach I would take with something like border controls.
Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs
#777Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Within EU we already pay ~€3 for packages from China Yes, the point is, pay +€1 for packages from EU to EU to finance all this PPWR circus.
It is already €20+ to send something from e.g. Czechia to France.
It doesn't matter, PPWR needs to get money from somebody to finance itself. Consumers end up paying it regardless of where PPWR's cut is taken.
Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs
#778A couple of things to note: 1. The EU commission wanted a single central registry 2. It was the member states, via the Council of Ministers, that torpedoed this. 3. The EU now advises its member states to not implement/enforce this 4. Until the correction, which is on its way, can be fully enacted. So the same old same old: member states do shitty stuff and blame the EU.
> A couple of things to note:
I have Claude Code PTSD.
Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs
#779Earlier quoted context omitted.
Simply not true. The helpful diagram you refer to does not consider the case where company A manufactures the packaging, company B buys the packaging, and then does a B2C delivery to another member state. In that case company B is the producer, even if B is a "micro-enterprise". > the discussion here seems to have a lot of people who are in a big rush to demonize their perceived political opponents on ideological gro…
the case where company A manufactures the packaging, company B buys the packaging, and then does a B2C delivery to another member state In that case company A is the producer. Also, even if the packaging is branded, company A is the producer if company B is a micro-enterprise. Looking through the document further, I notice that producers aren't even liable for detailed reporting until they put 10 tons of packaging ma…
The entity that introduces the packaging is responsible for upholding the packaging laws. The manufacturing entity of the packaging is not and cannot be responsible, because it does not decide to which countries the packaging is ultimately sent to.
And even if it worked that way, if you add a CE certified module to your product, the product as a whole still has to be CE certified.
Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs
#780I feel Europe is a bubble waiting to burst.
Recently I was giving a lecture on digital health regulation and 90% of people were pro regulation in general not just for digital health.
It’s something hard for them to understand that too much regulation is not good and a balance should exist