251–260 of 444 posts
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> AOSP is only more "secure" because, on some devices like Pixels, it exploits hardware features typically not found on general purpose computers. You don't think, say, isolating apps has anything to do with it?
Specific devices: >At the time of writing, within ~12 months, in 2027, the 2027 Signature, Razr fold, and Razr flip will meet the hardware security requirements and should have official GrapheneOS support. Motorola is currently porting GrapheneOS to their devices. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49038982
I've never really understood why we chase Android-alikes on mobile platforms instead of trying to build on mainstream Linux. I know some folks in the nix community (nix-on-droid and other projects) have tried to bring us closer to this, but projects like Graphene seem to have a lot of traction.
Because there is no such thing as "mainstream Linux" when it comes to anything related to user-facing consumer software. Not on desktops, not on tablets, not on phones.
I mean you invoked "mainstream Linux" and "Nix" in the same paragraph. That alone should clue you into why this, absolutely, does not work.
See here is the problem:
https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PinePhone_Software_Releases
"Linux enthusiests" would rather muck around with rewriting the same software over and over and over again because they dislike using GTK or whatever, and put monumental amount of efforts making new package managers, then, say, getting the ability to take simple photographs using a phone camera.
I mean... In that page there is no less then 25 different "Linux Phone OSes" listed.
None of them actually work.
They are all going to be slow, they are all going to burn through battery life. There is no meaningful security to speak of.
If I handed a unlocked "Linux phone" to somebody and said "take a photograph of me"... The chances of that actually working is slim to none.
Meanwhile we have Android OS that is proven to work. It is open source. It is used by, literally, billions of people. The security model is as good as it gets. It has better application support then Windows.
Taking something that works and then making it more secure and more open and more privacy focused is infinitely more productive and meaningful then trying over from scratch because you want a phone based around Nix packages or whatever.
Even if Google decided to close source Android from now on and be actively hostile to any open source kernel modules... Forking the Android that exists today and trying to make it work is exponentially more likely to yield positive results then, say, starting on a Debian-based "Linux phone OS".
And Android can still use nix-pkgs if you really wanted to.
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"Many" is doing a lot of work here. A more accurate statement would be that some banks in some countries require invasive apps, but fortunately it isn't the case everywhere (yet).
This is a huge problem in EU countries! The relevant regulations are Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2018/389 and the earlier Directive (EU) 2015/2366. While these laws are deliberately vague when it comes to specific technologies, they do require at least two independent factors from different categories, such as knowledge (password) and possession (phone). That, in and of itself, wouldn't be a problem. The way…
In reality, most of time it's just a matter of choosing the right bank wherever you are. I'm writing this on a GNU/Linux phone that does my banking just fine. I'm from the EU.
Specific devices: >At the time of writing, within ~12 months, in 2027, the 2027 Signature, Razr fold, and Razr flip will meet the hardware security requirements and should have official GrapheneOS support. Motorola is currently porting GrapheneOS to their devices. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49038982
I knew it would be their higher end devices but I really wish they would have put it on their lower end as well. I have a Moto G running LineageOS and it's my favorite phone ever. The ability to have my 800GB of music synced to a sdcard is something I'm loath to give up.
Expandable storage is priceless to me and the main reason I opt for this product.
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> Google, this small tech company (correct me if I'm wrong), is peddling source code via tarballs on google drive. What is the context for this? It's not clear from the linked social media post. The Android kernel source code is in git: https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/common/ Plus there's a lot of other Android source hosted on Google's git servers: https://android.googlesource.com/
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Google’s Tensor chipset is weak by modern standards, and Motorola is taking the strongest off the shelf processors from the best mobile chip designer (Qualcomm).
So...what's your comment? Opposing Motorola's comment, in that they already buy the best? Supporting, in that their standards haven't dropped?
I've never really understood why we chase Android-alikes on mobile platforms instead of trying to build on mainstream Linux. I know some folks in the nix community (nix-on-droid and other projects) have tried to bring us closer to this, but projects like Graphene seem to have a lot of traction.
> I've never really understood why we chase Android-alikes on mobile platforms instead of trying to build on mainstream Linux. Because there is no such thing as "mainstream Linux" when it comes to anything related to user-facing consumer software. Not on desktops, not on tablets, not on phones. I mean you invoked "mainstream Linux" and "Nix" in the same paragraph. That alone should clue you into why this, absolutely,…
I've never really understood why we chase Android-alikes on mobile platforms instead of trying to build on mainstream Linux. I know some folks in the nix community (nix-on-droid and other projects) have tried to bring us closer to this, but projects like Graphene seem to have a lot of traction.
I don't either. Don't we have free market capitalism? Why don't I have a Linux phone? And why do I need to worry that my government and banking apps won't work if I get a Linux phone?
I just wonder how they handle full Google's certification for hardware integrity + Google Play Store with GrapheneOS. They contradict on this part on the normal GrapheneOS mod and I don't see a way how they will not on Motorola phones. Banking apps (e.g. Revolut) block GrapheneOS actively and many other apps too. But it will be interesting times once they are out!
You've misunderstood something here. Revolut doesn't "block GrapheneOS actively". I'm running Revolut and most of my banking apps on GrapheneOS right now.
In my experience, there are two major categories of incompatibility:
- High levels of Google Play Integrity checks: app only works on releases of Android that have been allowlisted by Google. The only app that does this for me so far is McDonalds.
- Commercial root detection APIs: some of GrapheneOS' security features like "Secure App Spawning" trip root detection heuristics. This is the kind of incompatibility I usually run into for banking apps. You can disable individual features on a per-app basis these days to get around this.