Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

responsiblestatecraft.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

841–850 of 1001 posts

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#841

Post by ebbi »

starik36 wrote: post #816
ebbi wrote: post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These trite replies also worked 20 years ago, but not today. People that have read history know your assertion - vaguely suggesting it was the Palestinians that rejected many peace deals - know that this is completely false. Please do tell why an Israeli Prime Minister was assassinated?

> vaguely suggesting it was the Palestinians that rejected many peace deal I am not vaguely suggesting it. I am firmly suggesting it. This is not false, it's completely true. 1936 Peel Commission. 1947 UN Partition. Post 1967 countless attempts to do land for peace deals. 1999 Camp David attempts, 2000 Taba. 2008 negotiations between Abbas and Olmert. If not a 2 state solution, what exactly are you advocating?

If someone stole your food, and then offered to give you crumbs as a peace deal, would you accept it?

You can quantify the number of peace deals as much as you want. But when you don't present the facts and context behind it, you're being purposely deceptive.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#842

Post by frollogaston »

buellerbueller wrote: post #780
boxed wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> evidence of anyi semitic statements and connections to right wing nationalists Why the "and" there? The anti-semites on the left are of course... of the left. > There is very little jew hatred on the left Your head is in the sand. Leftists on the street shouting genocide of the jews ("from the river to the sea") is like a monthly thing. They started before Israel entered Gaza. Before .

Before Israel entered Gaza, "from the river to the sea" was an official plank in the likud party platform, the party of Netanyahu. If "from the river to the sea" is genocidal, then Netanyahu's party claimed the right to Gazan genocide.

Yes they did. But that doesn't have anything to do with the American leftists.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#843

Post by jameshilliard »

watutalkinbout wrote: post #832
jameshilliard wrote: post #808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gazans are being exterminated regardless of their actions. That's simply factually inaccurate, Hamas started the latest war while the population of Gaza was growing. The Jews started the Warsaw Ghetto uprising while they were being actively exterminated(i.e. population declining).

Hamas isn't Gazans. The population of Gaza has been declining over the last 2 years as a direct result of 10s of thousands of Gazas being killed, including thousands of kids. The methods thankfully differ, but the goals are pretty similar. Both contain an ethnonational conception of the state, seek to secure political sovereignty for a particular ethnonational people, attach historical/national significance to territ…

> Hamas isn't Gazans.

Hamas is the democratically elected government of Gaza and retains a high level of support amongst the population. The population could put more pressure on Hamas to disarm but so far it has been fairly minimal.

> Israel's main strategy until recently appeared to be to maximise suffering to force displacement.

Israel's strategy before October 7th was one of containment, but that clearly failed so they switched to a strategy of proactive threat management.

Israel probably should just fully occupy the territories in the short term and make a more serious attempt at Palestinian de-radicalization so that hopefully some sort of two state solution eventually becomes viable. Occupation with de-radicalization worked with the Nazi's and Imperial Japan at the end of WW2 but Israeli's just really don't want to have to fully occupy Gaza so that's going to be politically problematic.

> I don't really see a realistic peaceful strategy for Gazans based on decades of history, they have little power.

They had opportunities for peace, Palestinian leadership ultimately threw those opportunities away by refusing to even so much as propose a concrete peace deal that would be acceptable.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#844

Post by frollogaston »

nervai wrote: post #536
nielsbot wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agreeing, but unfortunately a lot of the motivation on the Right is anti-Jew hate.

As someone leaning left with big disagreements with the US right atm, I think the right in America would feel the same way if they felt their country's foreign, and to some extent domestic, policy was being hijacked by a small country in sub-Saharan Africa, or Asia (or Europe for that matter). They signed up for America First.

The American conservatives against Israel are self-consistent in that view. America first, not Israel, not Palestine either. But the Republican party line isn't that, it's MIGA.

American leftists... idk what they want. They can't even explain it, it's like they're taking radio commands from Qatar or Iran that they only barely understand.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#845

Post by slowin »

jameshilliard wrote: post #838
slowin wrote: post #806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you attribute Palestinian support for extremism to a similar root cause? Defending your home and against genocide is not "extremism". Anyone who's familiar with the history of Palestine will understand why they fight for their homelands and families: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba

> Defending your home and against genocide is not "extremism". The Nakba is not genocide, it might be considered ethnic cleansing but that's not remotely the same as genocide. It also wasn't just one side doing ethnic cleansing either, Israel has a large Arab minority population with full citizenship while the same is not true for Jews in other Arab countries or Palestinian controlled territories(i.e. Area A in the w…

> The Nakba is not genocide, it might be considered ethnic cleansing but that's not remotely the same as genocide

It was absolutely an ethnic cleansing and the killing never stopped. Israel has been murdering Palestinians (and it's Arab neighbors), since its inception.

All of the things you're saying have been said by Zionists a million times, and presumably are being pumped out by the think tank in the OP to flood the internet with trainable propaganda. It will not work though, the truth is known by too many people.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#846

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

judah wrote: post #833
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #799

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "continuous presence," you mean that a tiny number of Jews lived there. The vast majority of Jews lived elsewhere, and the vast majority of the local population was not Jewish. I'm sorry, but 5% of the population of Palestine being Jewish does not give one the right to take over the country, not to mention the fact that the longstanding Jewish population of Palestine was hostile to Zionism. It was a European polit…

If continuous presence in a land doesn't define a people's right to exist as a nation, you know what does? The ability to create and defend borders. Israel has that. Israel was invaded on the day it declared independence on May 14th, 1948. Invaded by 9 Arab nations and armies[0], Israel not only successfully defended itself and won the war, it even gained territory from the aggressors. Israel has a right to exist bec…

> If continuous presence in a land doesn't define a people's right to exist as a nation, you know what does?

You're playing a deliberate sleight of hand here. A tiny number of Jews lived as a small minority in Palestine, therefore Jews were always there, therefore European Jews have the right to turn Palestine into a Jewish state.

The "continuous presence" was tiny, and had nothing to do with the millions of Jews who lived in Europe - the people who later founded Israel.

> Israel has that. Israel was invaded on the day it declared independence on May 14th, 1948. Invaded by 9 Arab nations and armies, Israel not only successfully defended itself and won the war, it even gained territory from the aggressors.

The Zionist paramilitary groups had already been waging war against the Palestinians for 6 months by the time the Arab armies intervened. The Zionists had already driven hundreds of thousands of Palestinians out of their homes and conquered much of Palestine. But Israelis like to present this as little old us being attacked by the big mean Arab armies.

> The only people who deny this right of Jews to return to their native homeland? Bonafide neo-Nazis, Islamic fundamentalists, KKK members, and other antisemites.

You forgot to mention Jewish people. The large majority of Jews were antizionist before WWII, and opposition to Zionism has always been a prominent position among Jews. And inversely, many of the strongest proponents of Zionism have always been antisemites (for example, right-wing Christians in the US today).

Imagine if in the year 3600 AD, an African American political movement were to start saying that Africa is their true homeland and that they have the right to take over Ghana and to turn it into their own state. It would be absurd, and the Ghanaians would fight it tooth and nail.

Yet here you are saying that Palestine was the true homeland of Albert Einstein and Sigmund Freud, and that European Jews had a 2000-year-old right to take over Palestine, regardless of what the people who lived there had to think about it.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#847

Post by judah »

colordrops wrote: post #831
judah wrote: post #826

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History. Jews have lived in Israel for 3,500 years. They were forced out numerous times by numerous conquerors -- including the Islamic conquest of the 8th century -- but each time, Jews returned. And there is no genocide taking place, just a war Hamas started and lost. The Gazan population has already rebounded since Hamas started the war in 2023. For comparison with a real genocide, the global Jewish population tod…

You're at least 3 years behind on the hasbara propaganda. Please check in with the local chapter, there are much more effective narratives now.

> "you're behind on your propaganda"

Genuine dialog requires a willingness to engage with others' arguments, assess evidence and offer counterpoints.

That you dismiss the well-documented history and anthropology of the Jewish people as mere propaganda explains your worldview quite well.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#848

Post by js8 »

alt227 wrote: post #698
js8 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand what I mean by public social graph. What I mean is that anybody could publish or withdraw statements of two forms: - "I, owner of account A, certify that owner of account B is human." - "I, owner of account C, have a reason to trust/distrust the certification of account A about account B." The collection of these statements would be the public social graph. The social graph would then be…

This is exactly how bubbles of influence appear. Rarely do people from different leanings (social, political, economical etc) have spheres of opinion which intersect, and therefore get trapped in areas of general agreement. The social graph cannot be trusted to create a generally trusted source, because peoples innate distrust of things which differ from their own opinion skew this model heavily.

I should have noted, my comment is about facts. Opinion you can have, if you think it's beneficial for you not to trust (or trust) some nodes, do so!

The public social graph would be about who is a human, that can certify facts. Their opinion wouldn't really matter until you chose it to matter for you. Them being a human witness would only add credence to the accounts of the facts they witnessed, nothing more. You can still choose to disbelief the event if you have a good reason to (for example, even if you might believe a guy from Russia is a real person based on his social graph, if he certifies an event in Michigan, you might be skeptical of that account and decide to lower your own trust in that person). So there is a difference between the shared social graph - which is about a collective belief of who is a person, and your own trust, which you can modify as you wish. Unlike with Google and other big tech providers, there is not a singular "algorithm for trust" that can be manipulated.

You seem to be saying it will fail because people are tribal. I believe it will not fail, because the benefits of knowing the local social graph of each person will outweigh the tendency for opinion to split based on tribe. And the reason I think so is that trust evolved and exists in society; we do not only trust ourselves, and that's only possible if something like a social graph can work. The only issue is the scale, which can be solved by using a computer instead of computing it in our little heads.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#849

Post by customguy »

judah wrote: post #619
customguy wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are responsible for their actions, and big, racist buckets labelled "Jews" and "Arabs" are meaningless. Might as well say "humans always lived here, I'm a human, so it's my land now". If this is the level of thought these crimes are defended with, oh boy.

Do you hold the same standard for native Americans? And yes, people are responsible for their actions. Hamas, an Islamic fundamentalist group whose founding charter calls for the violent overthrow of the world's only Jewish state, started a war on October 7th, 2023. Israel fought back and won, and now Hamas is paying dearly for what they did.

> yes, people are responsible for their actions.

So why keep talking to claim the opposite again, trying to absolve Israel of responsibility again?

> Hamas, an Islamic fundamentalist group whose founding charter calls for the violent overthrow of the world's only Jewish state

... was sponsored by those who now use them as a pre-text. And that old, initial version of their charter, since revised, is still a joke to bring up in attempt to deflect from what IDF and Israeli politicians showed and show us, right now.

Israeli right-wing extremists, racists and fascists want more land, and don't consider Palestinians (or people in Libya or Iran, for that matter) as people, never did. Trying to kick up sand and pointing at some "other" just makes it more pathetic, it means you're just doubling down on such a pathetic and evil enterprise.

> the world's only Jewish state

It's Israel and Israelis. Buying land and calling it Israel doesn't make it biblical Israel, if God wanted to found a country he'd let you know. In the reality I do care about, Israel is the only state claiming to be a democracy whose supreme court allows torture, or that refuses to define its borders. Not allowing "mixed" marriages is also cringe, but in this context meh, who cares, let them be cringe. But even hinting at the the Torah while there's people singing about how there are no children in Gaza is an insolence you can try on someone else. Shame on you for implicitly invoking murdered people who were treated like Palestinians are treated by Israelis today. The nerve.

> Hamas is paying dearly for what they did.

Repeating such robotic one-liners is just the attempt to evade accountability for collective punishment plus other war crimes and crimes against humanity. That's some "winning" you're doing. Like a toddler that can no longer even scream coherent words, violence is the only remaining bridge Israel has to the rest of the world.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#850

Post by nailer »

ccppurcell wrote: post #377
nailer wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Do you believe that 30 to 40 Palestinians per night pose an immediate threat? Elsewhen in history, genocidal acts have been justified by claiming a non existent immediate threat (of disease, of economics, of fifth columnists, of terrorism).

Yes, obviously Hamas is many times more than this size. Obviously genocide doesn’t apply here because the population of Gaza has increased.
Post reply on HN