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DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

openrouter.ai

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Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#241

Post by HDBaseT »

hadlock wrote: post #133
gkbrk wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the model cannot figure out simple and ubiquitous tools, how is it supposed to figure out complex problems? All of the good models basically work with any harness, including giving them a single "shell command" tool. They can just figure things out.

When it comes to quality of outcome, since at least Feburary, the harness has almost equal, if not more weight than the model itself. It's no longer "which model is the best?" it's "which model + harness is the best?" I get drastically different tool call failure rates using Claude SDK vs OpenCode using Qwen 3.6 models

Yeah this is a complete lie.

You can use effectively any harness and get good results. Harnesses are mostly placebo.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#242

Post by HDBaseT »

xynelius wrote: post #43
aabdi wrote: post #2

https://api-docs.deepseek.com/quick_start/pricing/ Competitive with opus 4.8 but weaker than sol or fable. About 20x cheaper.

If that wasn't impressive enough, it's actually ~60x cheaper if you take into account the typical cache-read/input/output split in agentic coding, and the deep discount for cache reads offered by DeepSeek. Opencode has some public data on the typical split [1]: For DeepSeek V4 Pro the typical split is 750 in, 290 out, 82k cached. Cost per request for V4 Pro: $0.000875 per request. Equivalent Opus cost (w/o taking int…

Can we have a conversation about subscription plans for a minute?

I don't mean to hype up the US AI firms, but if a ChatGPT $200/m subscription can get you $16,000 in effective API costs, doesn't effectively every model get destroyed by the subsidized Claude/ChatGPT models? Both in price and intelligence.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#243

Post by SwellJoe »

miohtama wrote: post #224
Foobar8568 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, sol-xhigh is my favorite model. I feel that Opus 5 is dumber than 4.8. Fable is too expensive to do anything (limit of $50, started a prompt at $25, ended up at $75, is bullshit, but at least it's "free credits"). DeepSeek is okay for random API-based stuff, as it's cheap. Local open models running on a 5090 are hit or miss. I feel that most GGUFs/quants are awful...

Opus 5 degrades to word salad. I wonder if it is because of watermarking.

Opus 5 doesn't really even speak coherent English. I'm not sure what's going on, but it can't explain anything. It still does an excellent job with code and writing tests and code review and creating and completing a plan, and it seems to be able to understand English instructions, but it sure as hell can't explain what it did or how to use the code it wrote.

That was true before they announced the watermarking, I'd already started to back off of using Opus as much because I like to understand what the model is doing and have it write documentation I can use to reproduce its results, but maybe watermarking was already in there unannounced.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#244

Post by [deleted] »

book_mike wrote: post #32

What I care about is whether the model is capable of the tasks I give it at the lowest cost. Right now I'm using Kimi-K3/GLM-5.2/Minimax. Sonnet is great but I burn through the tokens too fast. Opus 5 set to max is amazing and more intelligent than all of us. .998 of the time I don't need that kind of intelligence. I just need the job done.

[deleted]

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#245

Post by moritzwarhier »

almyk wrote: post #229
moritzwarhier wrote: post #214

Is having padded version numbers with a leading zero a common thing? Wondering, sorry if it's a dumb triviality to ask. Is this even a (sub-)version number? I mean the major version is clearly 4.

It is the date of the release

thanks... XD

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#246

Post by theyliesoeasily »

vrganj wrote: post #222
akman wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think this question comes up a lot-- I can understand why. For some well-explained reasons, check out https://darioamodei.com/essay/the-adolescence-of-technology and search for "CCP".

As somebody from neither the US nor China, this argument would be much stronger if the US hadn't started acting like a rogue state - starting wars of aggression and messing up the world's energy supply, actively speeding up climate change, kidnapping leaders of sovereign nations, threatening its allies (!) with invasion, etc etc. The CCP's not great either, sure. But the Americans don't really have a leg to stand on…

To be fair the US has been doing this its entire history, it just stopped pretending. C.f. Hawaii, Guatemala, Cuba, Chile, "The Jakarta Method", etc. etc. etc.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#247

Post by RideOnTime22 »

hadlock wrote: post #133
gkbrk wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the model cannot figure out simple and ubiquitous tools, how is it supposed to figure out complex problems? All of the good models basically work with any harness, including giving them a single "shell command" tool. They can just figure things out.

When it comes to quality of outcome, since at least Feburary, the harness has almost equal, if not more weight than the model itself. It's no longer "which model is the best?" it's "which model + harness is the best?" I get drastically different tool call failure rates using Claude SDK vs OpenCode using Qwen 3.6 models

Every other week it's a new "X didn't matter, until Y date" without any hard quantitative claims.

It's crazy how over the past years a field originating from math ends up succumbing to subjective feels.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#248

Post by HDBaseT »

literallyroy wrote: post #113
igravious wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yup :) i'm doing opencode openrouter official deepseek api (i don't get the opencode hate, i like it) how are you doing it? am also using Kimi K3 via kimi-code and also GLM 5.2 via ZCode happy with all three, they're trailing frontier but i figure if i'm running GNU/Linux then i ought to favour open weights models with my €s -- reduced my usage of claude/gpt to the ~$20 tier just to keep abreast of claude_code/codex…

> i don't get the opencode hate, i like it When the company I work for was evaluating it, there were multiple rough points. Their terms and conditions allowed training on prompts, the default behavior was to route prompts to their servers for conversation summary/labeling. One of their lead maintainers is also super toxic on many issues. Sorry this is all baseless with no links, I’m on my phone and locating those iss…

1. The privacy policy was a bit misleading, but it has since been updated to reflect the exact state of things. [1]. For example, DeepSeek models have ZDR, although their ZDR contract is renewed monthly. It COULD change. You need to toggle a Setting in your account to use DS.

2. At one point (apparently) summary and title generations were handled by Grok. This has changed, by default it uses your 'small_model' configured in your config. By default, it will use a cheap model provided by your provider. E.g. if you have ChatGPT API connected, it will use the cheapest ChatGPT model. OpenRouter users MAY see it routed to a free model however. [2] [3]

[1] - https://opencode.ai/docs/go/#privacy [2] - https://github.com/anomalyco/opencode/blob/9b805e1cc4ba4a984... [3] - https://opencode.ai/docs/config/

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#249

Post by jug »

delduca wrote: post #234
simonw wrote: post #136

Nice bicycle chain, the little basket with a fish didn't show up in the right place: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht...

You don’t need the best model in 99% of cases…

This is true and is only becoming more important the more they improve. I am already moving to checking so they're at least somewhat following the status quo and otherwise prioritizing price and platform. I think this will be an emerging way of viewing AI in 2027 and the winner will probably be open models and China.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Pro 0813

#250

Post by ljlolel »

XCSme wrote: post #187

Again, I will wait until there's a provider that doesn't train on prompts before I will benchmark.

I built TrustedRouter so this can fail closed. min_privacy=zdr rejects the request when the model has no ZDR provider; confidential requires provider-side confidential compute. https://trustedrouter.com/blog/how-confidential-computing-pr...
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