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On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

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Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#51

Post by justonenote »

nekusar wrote: post #29
Cider9986 wrote: post #8

GrapheneOS has minimal, private [1] system apps so you don't have to debloat anything yourself. Manual debloating is not a good solution at the user level. Some system apps are being overhauled, so that's something to look forward to. Gallery will be [2] based on ReFra [3]. [1] Except phone and messaging but that's the cell network. GrapheneOS recommends Signal/Molly or SimpleX instead. [2] https://nitter.net/Graphen…

And Graphene OS is also anti-user by being tremendously rude about NOT providing root and using the same tired "suck-u-rity" crap Google and Apple also use. If you're smart enough to buy a phone that supports GrapheneOS, AND install it, yeah you should have root. And tools like XPrivacy and plugins allow control of subsystems like GPS spoofing and lying to apps.

If you are technical and want root its very easy to patch a build of GrapheneOS to include whatever mechanism you want. You can even automate this to continue to receive updates.

I think the decision of GrapheneOS to maintain the attestation features and not providing user root is what gives it a fighting chance of being accepted as legitimate 3rd choice. See: Revolut and others adding GrapheneOS keys and trusting their attestation

Like or not, for most users, having root access is a liability, especially with more and more important things being held on phones . Someone downloading a photo editing app and then having a rootkit installed in the background that waits to empty their bank account is not a workable situation.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#52

Post by Cider9986 »

nekusar wrote: post #29
Cider9986 wrote: post #8

GrapheneOS has minimal, private [1] system apps so you don't have to debloat anything yourself. Manual debloating is not a good solution at the user level. Some system apps are being overhauled, so that's something to look forward to. Gallery will be [2] based on ReFra [3]. [1] Except phone and messaging but that's the cell network. GrapheneOS recommends Signal/Molly or SimpleX instead. [2] https://nitter.net/Graphen…

And Graphene OS is also anti-user by being tremendously rude about NOT providing root and using the same tired "suck-u-rity" crap Google and Apple also use. If you're smart enough to buy a phone that supports GrapheneOS, AND install it, yeah you should have root. And tools like XPrivacy and plugins allow control of subsystems like GPS spoofing and lying to apps.

GrapheneOS's goals are privacy which must start from a secure baseline. If you want to make it less secure yourself, you can, but it's not the goal of the project.

It's not anti-user if it doesn't add the features you want that would destroy the security of the OS.

It has many features that give the user more control. Like disabling emergency alerts, protecting your data from attackers, contact and storage scopes (lying to apps for more privacy while retaining functionality), sensors permission, network permission.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#53

Post by pid0x17 »

tstactplsignore wrote: post #43

This sucks. I use adb to uninstall all of the system apps like facebook, youtube, web browser, etc. to give myself a minimalist, distraction-free phone that still has niche apps, maps, and communication apps. Might have to look into the expensive light phones as an alternative now if this update hits my phone.

I had the exact same problem because I had a strong addiction to smartphone apps.

I looked into the Light Phone and The Mudita Kompakt, but I ended up buying a refurbished Pixel 8 and putting Graphene OS on it, then I installed only essential apps I need. I keep my old iPhone 12 in a drawer at home and use it for anytime I Need any apps that don't work on a custom ROM, which includes my bank app (plus, imo, it's safer not carry around a phone that has my baking data on it in case it gets lost or stolen).

The light phones are a really cool concept but the Light Phone 3 is quite expensive (more expensive than a new Pixel 10) and the Mudita Kompakt seems to have a huge amount of grievances from users on their forum, so that put me off.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#54

Post by hparadiz »

graceful6800 wrote: post #41
_imnothere wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know it is easy to just take and hack No you don't, otherwise we wouldn't have banking apps on it.

Have you tried extracting, decompiling, and modifying someone else's app? It wasn't hard before LLMs and it's nearly trivial now.

The crypographic flow that allows payments to work is straight up pub/priv key encryption with one time use tokens. It's not something you can hack. As soon you see the token it's already been used and thrown away. So whatever nonsense about decompiling literally doesn't matter.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#55

Post by K0balt »

Seriously question; why is the answer to this not a phone that can just run GNU/Linux? Is it just the lack of application support? I mean, you’ll have blobs, but at least at the os level you’ll have options?

Can’t you run an android sandbox in Linux?

Docker phone?

I’m sure I’m missing something here, but what?

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#56

Post by skinfaxi »

graceful6800 wrote: post #41
_imnothere wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know it is easy to just take and hack No you don't, otherwise we wouldn't have banking apps on it.

Have you tried extracting, decompiling, and modifying someone else's app? It wasn't hard before LLMs and it's nearly trivial now.

Is that not possible with ios applications?

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#57

Post by skinfaxi »

hparadiz wrote: post #54
graceful6800 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried extracting, decompiling, and modifying someone else's app? It wasn't hard before LLMs and it's nearly trivial now.

The crypographic flow that allows payments to work is straight up pub/priv key encryption with one time use tokens. It's not something you can hack. As soon you see the token it's already been used and thrown away. So whatever nonsense about decompiling literally doesn't matter.

You can patch out the payment checks if you can decompile it

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#58

Post by jfyi »

hparadiz wrote: post #54
graceful6800 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried extracting, decompiling, and modifying someone else's app? It wasn't hard before LLMs and it's nearly trivial now.

The crypographic flow that allows payments to work is straight up pub/priv key encryption with one time use tokens. It's not something you can hack. As soon you see the token it's already been used and thrown away. So whatever nonsense about decompiling literally doesn't matter.

So your professional opinion is that the attack surface of mobile banking apps is limited to tokenized payments? Honestly, I'd be appalled if tokens were routed through my banking app. There is no reason the local client needs that data.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#60

Post by Xirdus »

skinfaxi wrote: post #56
graceful6800 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried extracting, decompiling, and modifying someone else's app? It wasn't hard before LLMs and it's nearly trivial now.

Is that not possible with ios applications?

You can't sideload iOS applications. Meaning there's no point to doing any of the listed things.
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