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I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

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Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#371

Post by megous »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #188
megous wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, rkisp1 driver that drives ISP on RK3399 on Pinephone Pro is available upstream in fully supported manner for like 4 years. It also has full docs in publicly available Rockchip datasheets and partial docs in calibration manuals. What have people done with it? Some mediocre support in libcamera? :) I don't think lack of handholding is an issue here.

Pinephone is a low volume product. What you need is to get the firmware for some common device that has shipped millions of units so that the number of people with the incentive to make it work is high enough to actually build a community.

There are many such devices already. What is limited is number of people interested in FOSS/independent camera stack development AND usage/users, not lack of devices. Pine64 built and shipped about 60k phones to audience that could be the most interested/receptive - and it made about 5 people interested in doing indepth real work, that I know about.

Also RK3399 is not just pinephone pro, it's way more prominent in other things - notebooks, SBCs, ... whatever. Same ISP is in i.MX SoC, which covers another whole range of devices.

Not sure what 100's of millions shipped units to disinterrested audience achieved?

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#372

Post by darkwater »

zx8080 wrote: post #198

If only a few techies will be able to use Linux phone, banks will freely lock payment services access down to two platforms: ios and android. No way out, it's happening right now (in the name of "security", of course, but surprisingly it does not stop scam from happening). Web will be locked down too, via secureboot stack browser integration (not -s, it's already actually monopolised to chrome only, as FF lives on fu…

It happened because even here on HN there are many tech people that were dismissing DRMs, secure enclave and remote attestation as "it's not a big deal" or "they have their part because an evil maid sent by a state actor could steal your disk".

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#373

Post by fg137 »

0xpgm wrote: post #195

Android basically ran a long bait and switch game. It came out as open source, achieved wide adoption, important online services like banking and government-related moved to it. Now they are locking it all down.

In "Androids: The Team That Built the Android Operating System" by Chet Haase (a book you shouldn't waste time on), it is very clear that making Android open source (i.e. AOSP) was almost by accident. Google was pretty confident that Android could be just as successful if it were a more closed ecosystem.

And it seems to be that Google is increasingly regretting that decision and closing things down bit by bit, from Play store policy, all the Play services BS, to how they ship security patches, and now all the developer verification. Google discovers that it's easier to make money if they just control everything.

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#374

Post by _factor »

dev1ycan wrote: post #277
WorldMaker wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's what felt like what really killed Windows Phone. Too many things became "only available" through an iOS or Android app. Windows Phone was free as in beer towards the end and there's a possibility there would have still been a small but devoted techie audience on it, if so many things weren't already so broken from disappearing/vanished app support.

It always seemed insane to me that people accepted so easily to have everything locked behind "app stores", crazy garbage, even worse having SO MUCH PREINSTALLED BLOATWARE OUT OF THE BOX.

I’m fine with that being the default. I know plenty of people who would have emulated the Win malware situation on their phone otherwise.

I’m not ok with it being the only option.

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#375

Post by hn_submit »

Although I'm supportive of your cause I find it ultimately futile. Developing and maintaining a mobile operating system is a hugely expensive endeavor. Only a wildly profitable company like Google could do so and give it away for free.

Linux simply isn't up to the task despite there being some touch-enabled user interfaces available for it. There's so much more people expect from their mobile these days.

The best option would be to use /e/OS or GrapheneOS to limit your exposure to Google's incessant spying and tracking.

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#376

Post by seba_dos1 »

jolmg wrote: post #251
seba_dos1 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If something bothers me with my phone's UI or if I want to change the behavior of some system service, I can do e.g. "apt source phosh", patch it and then "apt build-dep .", "dpkg-buildpackage -b" and "apt install" it right on the phone. I can even send the patch for upstreaming from there. How easy it is to do an equivalent thing on Android?

UI-wise, termux can run Xorg and you can modify the interface you use there. You're right about services. Can't run systemd, but they can just run the service programs in the background (e.g. they can call sshd directly). Regarding modifying programs, maybe not that convenient directly on termux, but if it's rooted, you may be able to run docker and modify them in a debian environment. The neat thing about non-Androi…

"interface you use there" - yes, with a strong accent on "there". Sure, you can even run a x86 emulator in a browser and run anything you want there as long as it's performant enough, but that's a very different thing to actually controlling the OS you run - and even if you do happen to be in some control, modifying anything in Android without reflashing the entire thing is still a massive PITA. And of course you're not gonna pass the attestations once you assert the control anymore, so why not just ditch Android completely at that point?

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#377

Post by lenerdenator »

hamper653 wrote: post #216
lenerdenator wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's more of a German/Austrian thing, really.

Are you telling me the US don’t actually make anything, not even their guns?

No, I'm telling you that a lot of guns, particularly pistols, sold here are made in either Germany or Austria. Well, more Austria.

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#378

Post by palata »

djfergus wrote: post #358
rickdeckard wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the real problem is Google Play Services. It's far, far too tightly integrated in a way that it just seems like Android was designed to be unusable without. This is somehow by intention. In the ramp-up of Android adoption, Vendors and carriers started to fork Android and deviate too much from the core. Google needed a leverage to tie them to stay compatible to the ecosystem, Google Mobile Services (GMS) was…

Thank you (and the GP post) for the insight. I wonder if further developing microg or similar would be a better use of resources than Postmarket, Ubuntu touch etc? Would that be a faster path to wider adoption and therefore better chance of challenging the Android/iOS duopoly?

Well microg is just the client side, but it still communicates with the Google servers, right?

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#379

Post by palata »

fzeindl wrote: post #369
reorder9695 wrote: post #294

I've come to the conclusion that I actually really like Android as an operating system, the internals seem remarkably well thought out and ideal for the mobile use case (so long as you're running a userdebug build with the ability to adb root in when needed), most of people's issues aren't really with Android (although Google reducing the AOSP release schedule isn't a good sign). I think the real problem is Google Pl…

> I actually really like Android as an operating system, the internals seem remarkably well thought out and ideal for the mobile use case Just no. I developed for android for a long time and I have seldomly seen a worse and more confusing SDK and code base. I can give you many examples but the core layouting algorithm having quadratic complexity with the number of widgets and the single base-view class having 60.000…

> I developed for android for a long time

When was that?

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#380

Post by palata »

hn_submit wrote: post #375

Although I'm supportive of your cause I find it ultimately futile. Developing and maintaining a mobile operating system is a hugely expensive endeavor. Only a wildly profitable company like Google could do so and give it away for free. Linux simply isn't up to the task despite there being some touch-enabled user interfaces available for it. There's so much more people expect from their mobile these days. The best opt…

> Developing and maintaining a mobile operating system is a hugely expensive endeavor.

I agree, it feels like trying to write a new browser from scratch.

> The best option would be to use /e/OS or GrapheneOS

I would highly recommend GrapheneOS (disclaimer: I used both for years).

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