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I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

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Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#331

Post by rickdeckard »

reorder9695 wrote: post #294

I've come to the conclusion that I actually really like Android as an operating system, the internals seem remarkably well thought out and ideal for the mobile use case (so long as you're running a userdebug build with the ability to adb root in when needed), most of people's issues aren't really with Android (although Google reducing the AOSP release schedule isn't a good sign). I think the real problem is Google Pl…

> I think the real problem is Google Play Services. It's far, far too tightly integrated in a way that it just seems like Android was designed to be unusable without.

This is somehow by intention. In the ramp-up of Android adoption, Vendors and carriers started to fork Android and deviate too much from the core. Google needed a leverage to tie them to stay compatible to the ecosystem, Google Mobile Services (GMS) was the tool to do so. "Pass the compatibility test suite and you qualify to preload GMS".

Then, at some point, Google implemented API's in the OS which call Google's cloud infrastructure (e.g. Location services), which they didn't want to commit to the Android source for the risk of them being forked and modified, so they started to implement them in a precompiled "Google Play Services" module.

Over time, it seems Google Play Services became the preferred vehicle for Google to rollout any kind of API-changes to have them applied on all devices immediately, without waiting for the vendor to do an OS-Upgrade.

The result is that Google now promotes Google Play Service API's as the way for the most widely compatible implementation of an app. Which is...not wrong, but in the larger picture also the reason why Android is not considered "real" open-source (anymore).

> The ideal outcome for me would be keeping Android but effectively dissolving Play Services

Agree. There is still a very good OS in there, clearly written by considerate SW-Engineers.

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#332

Post by inigyou »

netsharc wrote: post #324
azalemeth wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alas, the android VM will fail safetynet by not passing bootloader attestation. I really hate modern Google.

It makes sense to have these kinds of checks because of rootkits, but sadly the poweruser is fucked. There isn't even an option to say "I know what I am doing and if a hacker takes all my money I won't cry to the bank". Probably the banks prefer that no emulators can snoop and see how exploitable their apps are.

That isn't a legal option for good reasons. If it was legal, every bank would make you tick it.

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#333

Post by inigyou »

jraph wrote: post #236
CalRobert wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe at least the banks website won’t function if you don’t auth with their app.

I live in Europe and I can use my bank just fine without their app. I've read somewhere that some banks will let you use their SMS 2FA as long as you haven't already used their mobile app.

Probably if you threaten to close your account they'll also change it. But you have to be willing to actually close your account.

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#334

Post by inigyou »

eimrine wrote: post #244
MarceliusK wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that one essential app being unavailable can outweigh the other 95% of the phone working perfectly

Capitalists know how to hook up the intended audience. Just disallow people to use their money with any FOSS OS. RMS is crying.

It's called a card. Get a phone case with a pocket. Put the card in the pocket.

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#335

Post by inigyou »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #188
megous wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, rkisp1 driver that drives ISP on RK3399 on Pinephone Pro is available upstream in fully supported manner for like 4 years. It also has full docs in publicly available Rockchip datasheets and partial docs in calibration manuals. What have people done with it? Some mediocre support in libcamera? :) I don't think lack of handholding is an issue here.

Pinephone is a low volume product. What you need is to get the firmware for some common device that has shipped millions of units so that the number of people with the incentive to make it work is high enough to actually build a community.

No you don't need to create the incentive to make it work. You need to actually make it work.

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#336

Post by inigyou »

mrheosuper wrote: post #180
jarbus wrote: post #80

I really want to love mobile Linux, and have given it multiple shots before. But I just don't see how it will catch up with iOS/Android in the same way it caught up with Windows/Mac: - OEMs have poured an enormous amount of resources into the camera software, Linux cameras are years behind from what I understand. - Android/iOS have thoroughly optimized the UX in all sorts of subtle ways, the big one being their keybo…

I think Linux need another "Wine" moment, but for android/ios.

The Wine moment was actually the Proton moment when Valve needed games to work outside the impending Microsoft stranglehold.

Because of Proton, Microsoft gave up its effort to block Steam and move all Steam games to the Microsoft Store.

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#337

Post by inigyou »

Cider9986 wrote: post #259
0xpgm wrote: post #195

Android basically ran a long bait and switch game. It came out as open source, achieved wide adoption, important online services like banking and government-related moved to it. Now they are locking it all down.

AOSP isn't being locked down.

AOSP isn't Android.

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#338

Post by inigyou »

DataDynamo wrote: post #304
MrDrMcCoy wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments that require any particular device, OS, or 3rd-party platform have sold your citizenship to private interests.

But what's your choice as a citizen then - emigrate from your country due to apps?

Show up to the government office. Say you don't have a compatible phone. Wait until they find a solution for you.

I guarantee the government is not forcing 95-year-old Betsy in bumfuck nowhere with no cell coverage to learn how to use a phone. They have some solution, they're just not making it obvious.

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#339

Post by inigyou »

mdp2021 wrote: post #282
CalRobert wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We chose that when we stopped using cash.

> stopped using cash You stopped using cash? It is one of the most insane things I ever heard. You transactions are tracked, I assume? The rule in the eu (PSD2) is that a dozen private/public/hybrid/other databases, of unclear substantial identity, will record your transactions. And what if you had a an infrastructural shortage? No transactions then? How can people think of "cashless society" as something outside a d…

Yeah especially in Ukraine. An active war zone. Russia bombs the power plant again and you can't buy groceries?

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#340

Post by inigyou »

bpavuk wrote: post #55
Underphil wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious... are you unable to get a physical card or just don't want to?

just don't want to. it would be nonsensical to get it since all functionality that was provided by ATMs in pre-mobile age mono provides only via an app. ATMs log in through app and only exist to accept cash, so I can't use it as a "secondary authentication method" in ATMs or check my balance outside the app.

> just don't want to.

then it's all your own fault, isn't it?

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