Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

404media.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 214 posts

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#181

Post by LocalH »

Windchaser wrote: post #107
Cider9986 wrote: post #16

Also Flock, in the past week: All of Winona Police Department's Flock cameras cut down and stolen https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49171656 241 comments How Cops Are Trying to Hide Their Use of Flock https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49172076 9 comments Flock's CEO Faced Me After Its Cameras Led to My Wrongful Stop https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49156650 118 comments Flock – Chilling Effects: Long Island…

Man outlines how hardened criminals take down Flock cameras, detailing it step-by-step: https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1v78ihu/...

You spelled "heroes" incorrectly.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#182

Post by tastyfreeze »

JuniperMesos wrote: post #148
tastyfreeze wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My last stint on grand jury we had a case that none of us felt great about. It was a felony theft charge where the thief likely used the vehicle regularly but took it in the middle of the night to return home. He was at a logging camp where he pays for accommodations but they had no work for him. After 3 days he got frustrated and left in the middle of the night. Camp foreman called the law reporting the vehicle stol…

So, uh, was the guy planning on bringing the vehicle back to the logging camp? It's not obvious to me that this wasn't in fact vehicle theft.

Yes, it was technically theft. Officers found the vehicle at his house shortly after it was reported missing. Not really an opportunity to return it. If all laws were prosecuted to the exact letter of the law we would not need juries. The DA will prosecute any case that they feel has enough evidence to secure a conviction, as this case had. It is the juries that determine if prosecution in each case is "just".

Steal a car to rush somebody to a hospital then return it after and the letter of the law will convict you as a felon. It is the jury that could decide, as representatives of the community, that you should not be a felon for saving somebody's life even if you technically stole a car.

In most states the jury instructions are to make their judgement based solely on the evidence presented to them. These instructions make a jury a cog in the prosecution machine. The purpose of a jury is a final check on the government's execution of the law by members of the community.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#183

Post by Cider9986 »

xnx wrote: post #171
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #11

This is the big problem with mass surveillance as a whole. With enough time, they'll find some pretext to bring you in, even if the original crime they want you for is weak. This will ruin lives, even if they're eventually let go. Jobs lost, evicted from homes, cars towed, pets surrendered and put down. Lives will be completely derailed, police and judges will not be held accountable. The wrongful arrestees will stil…

> This is the big problem with mass surveillance as a whole. With enough time, they'll find some pretext to bring you in, even if the original crime they want you for is weak. This sounds like a problem with an unaccountable police force. London has had a CCTV system for 60 years.

And it's the least free western country.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#184

Post by pixl97 »

GuB-42 wrote: post #178
pixl97 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming cops actually present the evidence they have and don't hide it from the defense. The police and DA don't care if they put a guilty or not guilty person in jail, the 'tough on crime' faction that tends to get people elected cares about the number of people thrown in jail. The more the better. Throw 10,000 people in jail, you must be a damned good elected official and you get re-elected. >you can't have more a…

What I was trying to say is that if no one is available to make an arrest, you can't make an arrest. Why do you think people get away with minor traffic offenses all the time, something right in front of an officer? There simply isn't enough means to deal with these, so they just ignore most of them.

I mean, in an electronic prison, you just issue the ticket and wait. Eventually people have to do things like renew licenses and they are arrested there. This is very similar to systems states are using now preventing the renewal of expired things like licenses.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#185

Post by ang_cire »

tastyfreeze wrote: post #182
JuniperMesos wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, uh, was the guy planning on bringing the vehicle back to the logging camp? It's not obvious to me that this wasn't in fact vehicle theft.

Yes, it was technically theft. Officers found the vehicle at his house shortly after it was reported missing. Not really an opportunity to return it. If all laws were prosecuted to the exact letter of the law we would not need juries. The DA will prosecute any case that they feel has enough evidence to secure a conviction, as this case had. It is the juries that determine if prosecution in each case is "just". Steal…

> If all laws were prosecuted to the exact letter of the law we would not need juries. The DA will prosecute any case that they feel has enough evidence to secure a conviction, as this case had. It is the juries that determine if prosecution in each case is "just".

I think you're think of grand juries. They decide if there is enough evidence to go to trial, I.e. if the prosecution is just.

Even without grand juries, we'd still have juries that decide the verdicts. They decide if a conviction is just.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#186

Post by NekkoDroid »

LocalH wrote: post #181
Windchaser wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man outlines how hardened criminals take down Flock cameras, detailing it step-by-step: https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1v78ihu/...

You spelled "heroes" incorrectly.

"For legal reasons my lawyer has advised me to call the criminals"

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#187

Post by timcobb »

bko wrote: post #136
ycombinatrix wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I saw you take the $5. Good luck convincing the police you didn't.

[flagged]

It's just the ol', "I don't need privacy because I have nothing to hide" routine, which is, in fact, the naive perspective.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#188

Post by kyleee »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #170
JK-Swizzle wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://abcnews.com/US/man-speaks-after-police-release-9-tra... He was attacked by a police dog after a flock camera misread his license plate. He was then charged for "obstruction", which was dropped 4 months later.

Police dogs are another insane thing we allow. You can be mauled by a police dog and if you hit the dog, you get an assault on a police officer charge. It's bad enough a cop can permanently disable you if you can't follow 3 conflicting orders being yelled, but they can also send an animal who literally doesn't know better.

And the absurdity of a dog sniffing around the car for contraband. Crazy that’s allowed and taken seriously by the justice system

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#189

Post by infinite_spin »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #61
segmondy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone that is innocent is going to get killed soon because flock flagged them incorrectly. I recall reading the auto journalist that got flagged for a stolen car while test driving a car. We have seen how often pull over/arrests can derail when a stupid cop that is aggressive pulls out their weapon first, fires fast and then investigates last. An innocent person that reacts wrongly is eventually going to make the n…

Woman with SUV filled with minors pulled out by cops and handcuffed on the ground in Colorado based on flock ID'ing the license plate of stolen... motorcycle with same number (but from a different state). You can't make this shit up. https://www.kxlf.com/news/america-in-crisis/aurora-police-de...

glad you posted this.

> "Why are you now placing these children on the ground face into the concrete? It's hot! In front of all of us? Screaming at them. They are telling you they are hurt," witness Jenni Wurtz said.

I cannot believe LE will use this technology within ethical bounds, since they are willing to force a very young child onto the asphalt of a hot parking lot, who cannot possibly have posed a risk to their safety.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#190

Post by infinite_spin »

xnx wrote: post #172
segmondy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone that is innocent is going to get killed soon because flock flagged them incorrectly. I recall reading the auto journalist that got flagged for a stolen car while test driving a car. We have seen how often pull over/arrests can derail when a stupid cop that is aggressive pulls out their weapon first, fires fast and then investigates last. An innocent person that reacts wrongly is eventually going to make the n…

Flock doesn't kill people. Cops do.

The systems we have in place kill people. Aiming to blame just one point of failure, in a complex network of systems, is a failure itself
Post reply on HN