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Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

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11–20 of 214 posts

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#11
This is the big problem with mass surveillance as a whole. With enough time, they'll find some pretext to bring you in, even if the original crime they want you for is weak.

This will ruin lives, even if they're eventually let go. Jobs lost, evicted from homes, cars towed, pets surrendered and put down.

Lives will be completely derailed, police and judges will not be held accountable. The wrongful arrestees will still be in debt to the local jail and court for various fees they racked up. Trust in the justice system will continue to degrade and more and more violence will be used against people to maintain order.

We hold police to high standards for search/arrest because they have the monopoly on violence. Even if they're wrong, you can't shoot back. Even if they're slamming your loved ones into the pavement, breaking their teeth, you cannot kick the cop in the head or else they have permission to murder you both.

Mass surveillance is a loophole to this contract.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#12
post #6

I am misunderstanding the article, if "The searches came to light in a Wisconsin criminal complaint against Edward Abrams-Phillips, who was wanted for bail jumping on domestic violence charges." he was wanted, why do they need a pretext for the stop?

The article is wrong on this point: the fact that he was crossing state lines was not a pretext for the stop. They actually wanted to add another charge. The cameras helped them find the right opportunity to do that. If they just picked him up driving around, they would only be able to charge those existing crimes. By waiting for him to cross state lines, they have a chance to add on another charge. They already had…

Unless I'm misreading this is all covered explicitly in the article.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#14

This is the big problem with mass surveillance as a whole. With enough time, they'll find some pretext to bring you in, even if the original crime they want you for is weak. This will ruin lives, even if they're eventually let go. Jobs lost, evicted from homes, cars towed, pets surrendered and put down. Lives will be completely derailed, police and judges will not be held accountable. The wrongful arrestees will stil…

>This will ruin lives, even if they're eventually let go. Jobs lost, evicted from homes, cars towed, pets surrendered and put down.

Yes. That's exactly the point. Comply with every little thing, no matter how absurd, or else your life will unravel.

Look through a historical comment (especially from back when "big data" was the buzzword) thread on any subject where HN is pro regulation and pro government. This is EXACTLY what the useful idiots want.

They want some NYC liquor store owner to pay a hundred grand to the state because that one time he visited NH he loaded up his van with tax free henny to sell back home.

They want that exurban undeveloped lot owner to lose their house for letting their buddy with a tree service dump there and fill in a few hundred square feet over the course of half a decade.

They want some random industrial employer that makes nuts and bolts or something to be fined millions of dollars because their maintenance employees spray painted a piece of equipment in the parking lot without the PPE and pollution compliance measures befitting a commercial paint operation.

They want the jackboot on the throat of everyone who steps out of line on any axis that they care about.

They see the way the banking industry tries to stay away from weed, porn and guns because the upside isn't worth the risk of being combed over by the enforcers. And instead of seeing it as cautionary, they see it as a model that needs to be scaled down to the small businesses and the lowly individual peasants.

Of course they don't lay it out so plainly. They use words like "negative externality" and "antisocial" and "dis-incentivize" to whitewash it but that doesn't change what it is.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#15

This is the big problem with mass surveillance as a whole. With enough time, they'll find some pretext to bring you in, even if the original crime they want you for is weak. This will ruin lives, even if they're eventually let go. Jobs lost, evicted from homes, cars towed, pets surrendered and put down. Lives will be completely derailed, police and judges will not be held accountable. The wrongful arrestees will stil…

Maybe they can start enforcing the law when it comes to blatant offenders that terrorize large cities. Illegal blocking of sidewalk selling fake handbags, selling untaxed marijuana on street corners, violating traffic laws on e-bikes. A lot of wood to chop before they get to my jay walking so I think I’m safe for the time being. But I welcome more enforcement

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#16
Also Flock, in the past week:

All of Winona Police Department's Flock cameras cut down and stolen

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49171656

241 comments

How Cops Are Trying to Hide Their Use of Flock

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49172076

9 comments

Flock's CEO Faced Me After Its Cameras Led to My Wrongful Stop

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49156650

118 comments

Flock – Chilling Effects: Long Island's Emerging Open-Air Prison

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49148541

38 comments

Leaked Flock Guide Shows How It Teaches Cops to Promote Its Tech

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49158837

17 comments

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#17
post #9

I am misunderstanding the article, if "The searches came to light in a Wisconsin criminal complaint against Edward Abrams-Phillips, who was wanted for bail jumping on domestic violence charges." he was wanted, why do they need a pretext for the stop?

1. those charges were dismissed 2. the article address that specifically: > The case is an example of Flock cameras being used to arrest a wanted alleged criminal suspected of committing a violent crime. But it is also an example of police surveillance overreach *in that the cameras were specifically used to create a pretext to tack on additional petty crimes* based primarily on where a person’s vehicle had traveled.

I think using technology to capture alleged criminals is a good thing.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#19
post #17
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. those charges were dismissed 2. the article address that specifically: > The case is an example of Flock cameras being used to arrest a wanted alleged criminal suspected of committing a violent crime. But it is also an example of police surveillance overreach *in that the cameras were specifically used to create a pretext to tack on additional petty crimes* based primarily on where a person’s vehicle had traveled.

I think using technology to capture alleged criminals is a good thing.

does this work for any allegation? if it was a serious one surely they could get a warrant. if it's not enough for that it might as well be gossip imo.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#20
Based on my observations (news reports, local chatter, etc) it seems that every state that borders a state with legal Cannabis does this. Idaho does this very frequently (since just about every border is a legal source). They take advantages of the bottlenecks on highways and have cameras and/or officers there.

If it is Flock, interagency communications, license plate readers or just "enhanced stops" for things like a crack in the windshield.

People seem to forget that while buying in one state is legal it actually can become a much larger crime than just possession as soon as you cross state lines. It "can" become a federal matter...

This person in the article attracted the gaze of Sauron.

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