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Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

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Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#151

Post by pixl97 »

GuB-42 wrote: post #146
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #11

This is the big problem with mass surveillance as a whole. With enough time, they'll find some pretext to bring you in, even if the original crime they want you for is weak. This will ruin lives, even if they're eventually let go. Jobs lost, evicted from homes, cars towed, pets surrendered and put down. Lives will be completely derailed, police and judges will not be held accountable. The wrongful arrestees will stil…

I am playing devil's advocate here, but mass surveillance can also save you. Let's say your just broke up with your girlfriend, shortly after, her house get burgled and a bunch of jewelry is stolen, including some you gave her when you were together. A surveillance camera catches the burglar, a drug addict with a criminal record, he gets caught, tried and sentenced to 2 years in prison. The kind of case that won't ge…

Assuming cops actually present the evidence they have and don't hide it from the defense. The police and DA don't care if they put a guilty or not guilty person in jail, the 'tough on crime' faction that tends to get people elected cares about the number of people thrown in jail. The more the better. Throw 10,000 people in jail, you must be a damned good elected official and you get re-elected.

>you can't have more arrests without the means to do so.

Not exactly sure what you're trying to say... you can always have more arrests. Make more things crime. Pre-crime, thought crime, speech crime. When you run out of physical space you start stacking the prisoners 10 deep. When that runs out of space you start executing them and putting them in ovens.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#152

Post by Der_Einzige »

tastyfreeze wrote: post #131
Der_Einzige wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I rudely learned when I was preparing to use the "I'm gonna do jury nullification" thing during a jury selection, there are a few states, including mine, where jury nullification is explicitly "not-stated" but not a uniquely acceptable reason to strike a juror, despite what our juror handbook might claim about violating an "oath" (you cannot be punished for "violating an oath" if you are selected). I was lucky tha…

My last stint on grand jury we had a case that none of us felt great about. It was a felony theft charge where the thief likely used the vehicle regularly but took it in the middle of the night to return home. He was at a logging camp where he pays for accommodations but they had no work for him. After 3 days he got frustrated and left in the middle of the night. Camp foreman called the law reporting the vehicle stol…

If they are going to seat me on the jury after I loudly proclaim my willingness to nullify - I'm game for the trial!

The main problem is the idea that I'm held captive by some fake contract to the state. I'm lucky that where I am the law is more just/libertarian than in most other places - meaning that in general the average arrested person is more likely to be actually guilty, but especially in places that are ultra authoritarian (i.e. Virginia), I need all the power I can get to protest their unjust system or I'm not going to have my time wasted.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#153

Post by JK-Swizzle »

segmondy wrote: post #31
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #11

This is the big problem with mass surveillance as a whole. With enough time, they'll find some pretext to bring you in, even if the original crime they want you for is weak. This will ruin lives, even if they're eventually let go. Jobs lost, evicted from homes, cars towed, pets surrendered and put down. Lives will be completely derailed, police and judges will not be held accountable. The wrongful arrestees will stil…

Someone that is innocent is going to get killed soon because flock flagged them incorrectly. I recall reading the auto journalist that got flagged for a stolen car while test driving a car. We have seen how often pull over/arrests can derail when a stupid cop that is aggressive pulls out their weapon first, fires fast and then investigates last. An innocent person that reacts wrongly is eventually going to make the n…

https://abcnews.com/US/man-speaks-after-police-release-9-tra... He was attacked by a police dog after a flock camera misread his license plate. He was then charged for "obstruction", which was dropped 4 months later.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#154

Post by peterlk »

GuB-42 wrote: post #146
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #11

This is the big problem with mass surveillance as a whole. With enough time, they'll find some pretext to bring you in, even if the original crime they want you for is weak. This will ruin lives, even if they're eventually let go. Jobs lost, evicted from homes, cars towed, pets surrendered and put down. Lives will be completely derailed, police and judges will not be held accountable. The wrongful arrestees will stil…

I am playing devil's advocate here, but mass surveillance can also save you. Let's say your just broke up with your girlfriend, shortly after, her house get burgled and a bunch of jewelry is stolen, including some you gave her when you were together. A surveillance camera catches the burglar, a drug addict with a criminal record, he gets caught, tried and sentenced to 2 years in prison. The kind of case that won't ge…

This is what the presumption of innocence is supposed to do. If you have an alibi, then big brother doesn’t get involved. These are cultural problems that we do not need big brother’s benevolence to solve for us. We need better cultural systems of accountability; the problem is that those are _way_ harder to build

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#155

Post by gwbas1c »

> “Every child in this video is home tonight because Flock gave officers the right information at the right second,” ... “That’s the mission. That’s the whole company. I wouldn't trade that for anything.”

I think it's clear that, if these things (flock cameras) continue to be a part of modern society, they need significantly higher oversight. What's painful with statements like above is that it shows that we just don't have good enough leadership to set appropriate standards for when things like flock cameras are appropriate.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#156

Post by mikem170 »

Windchaser wrote: post #89
bko wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> "filth and crime" checks, it's "people selling untaxed marijuana" Yeahhhh, we have radically different ideas about what constitutes "they're terrorizing my city". Casual use of heavy-handed law enforcement makes things much, much worse, not better.

Lots of people are scared of those who are different or unfamiliar. They live in their own bubble - prefering homogenous suburbs, non-poor office workers, algorithmic feeds for their cognitive biases, etc.

And fear, whether real or induced by manipulation, has precipitated a -lot- of atrocities in the world.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#157

Post by dillondoyle »

forlorn_mammoth wrote: post #43
TZubiri wrote: post #25

I don't quite get the thesis of the author here. Regardless of the view that one may have on Cannabis laws, they are illegal, if the system is correctly detaining people that break those laws, and you have a problem with that, is the problem with the enforcement system or the law? If you don't like some aspect of this, should you be campaigning for removal of flock cameras? Or campaigning for cannabis rights and Cont…

The two hang together. You campaign in your state to legalize something. Some other state, where you have very little influence, goes the other way. It isn't just cannabis. what if the law categorizes abortion as felony/murder? what if the law categorized certain types of sexual behavior as felony?

Already happening. They're pissed abortion is up. These alt-right/christian nationalists are trying to force their 'morals' on the rest of us

"She Got an Abortion. So A Texas Cop Used 83,000 Cameras to Track Her Down"

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/05/she-got-abortion-so-te...

it gets worse federally.

"Blanche assures anti-abortion supporters that Dobbs will be ‘permanent in every single state’"

https://www.politico.com/news/2026/08/03/blanche-pledged-abo...

So what happens when they use cameras outside of usps to crate pretext so a crazy alt right state judge issues a warrant under the assumption that you picked up pills in the mail?

"AG nominee tells faith leaders he will take action to restrict abortion drug access"

https://stateline.org/2026/08/04/ag-nominee-tells-faith-lead...

And relevant to interstate weed, what about kava, peptides, 7oh? they literally have million+ plus stakes in pushing drugs. Even when it means blocking worse drugs (7oh) so they can push slightly less addictive but still harmful garbage.

"Senate inquiry suggests Trump administration softened kratom and tobacco policies in quid pro quo"

https://www.statnews.com/2026/08/05/senator-ron-wyden-invest...

"Trump Administration’s Fake Crackdown Leaves Most ‘Gas Station Heroin’ on the Shelves. According to March 2026 financial disclosures, Mullin invested between $500,001 and $1 million in Botanic Tonics, LLC, of Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, the company that makes Feel Free Classic – the tonic found in the victim’s bedroom. Mullin reportedly urged officials to remove language from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA) website warning of kratom’s harms."

https://www.citizen.org/news/trump-administrations-fake-crac...

It's all disgusting. Their voters deserve these consequences.

But they're forcing the rest of us to suffer.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#158

Post by Der_Einzige »

insanitybit wrote: post #41
giantg2 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Even if they're wrong, you can't shoot back." Depends on the situation. You'd absolutely be arrested. Get in front of a jury of 12 people and you might have a chance if you have enough evidence for a self-defense claim and the cop acting outside of the law.

Only if the jury believes in nullification, which isn't common. The jury is instructed to follow the law. The selection process asks "even if you think they were right, if it's against the law and they were guilty would you issue a guilty verdict?" and people answer "yes" consistently.

Tons of people who smoke weed and had to say "yes" to the "are you not a drug user" and lied on a form to get guns were just found by the US Supreme Court 9-0 to not be violating the law:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-supreme-court-backs-chal...

Hunter Biden trial would never have happened now too because of this - many people at the time wanted him to fight it out and be the poster child for this rather than the Pakistani guy in this version of the case.

So actually, you can indeed just say "yes" and than "vote your conscious" anyway, even openly - at least in the case of the few states that don't have "willing to nullify" as an acceptable reason to strike a juror during jury selection.

Note in this case guy was in an illegal state and also had cocaine.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#159

Post by gwbas1c »

asdff wrote: post #143
Ccecil wrote: post #20

Based on my observations (news reports, local chatter, etc) it seems that every state that borders a state with legal Cannabis does this. Idaho does this very frequently (since just about every border is a legal source). They take advantages of the bottlenecks on highways and have cameras and/or officers there. If it is Flock, interagency communications, license plate readers or just "enhanced stops" for things like…

They are making an assumption that someone is buying when they go into the dispensary. Not necessarily the case. They aren't compelled to buy anything when entering.

Which if you know that's the case, it's a good way to f*ck with the police. Travel to the dispensary and be empty handed when the search comes. After 2-3 searches you file a cease-and-desist.

Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search

#160

Post by rwz »

If you ignore the policy question of do cops even need access to the kind of capabilities Flock tech provides, this particular case becomes a pretty clear example of user error amplified by the capabilities of the tech and not the issue with the tech itself.

The cops didn't realize that the license plate they were searching was a) incomplete and therefore fuzzily matched multiple unrelated vehicles, and b) wasn't even stolen to begin with.

This is similar to running `rm -r *` in a wrong folder and then shifting blame on rm for deleting the stuff you didn't want deleted. Sure, there's maybe a conversation here about overall rm ergonomics and if the average user is even competent enough to be allowed to run it, but the it's first and foremost a user error.

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