I used to get really upset when I saw a car on the road with obscured or disfigured plates. The rise of Flock/ALPRs has done a great deal to morally rehabilitate this behavior.
Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search
141–150 of 214 posts
Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search
#142Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search
#143Based on my observations (news reports, local chatter, etc) it seems that every state that borders a state with legal Cannabis does this. Idaho does this very frequently (since just about every border is a legal source). They take advantages of the bottlenecks on highways and have cameras and/or officers there. If it is Flock, interagency communications, license plate readers or just "enhanced stops" for things like…
They are making an assumption that someone is buying when they go into the dispensary. Not necessarily the case. They aren't compelled to buy anything when entering.
Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search
#144Here's my thoughts on how Flock and related tech should be handled. Nothing gets stored unless there's a specific judicial warrant. They can take a pic of my license plate, I'm in public, ok. But unless they have a warrant naming my license plate specifically, then nothing gets stored. At all. No log of the plate, no photo of the car, driver, etc. NOTHING. And this needs to be easily auditable.
Those are my thoughts, curious about holes in my idea.
Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Why is this a reality? Tokyo is not like this. There was a lot less of this petty criminality 10 years ago.
I love Japan. I love Tokyo.
But go look at the conviction rate in Japan - it's not because their police are just so much better than ours that they just never get the wrong person. I would never argue for the Japanese legal and police system in America.
Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search
#146This is the big problem with mass surveillance as a whole. With enough time, they'll find some pretext to bring you in, even if the original crime they want you for is weak. This will ruin lives, even if they're eventually let go. Jobs lost, evicted from homes, cars towed, pets surrendered and put down. Lives will be completely derailed, police and judges will not be held accountable. The wrongful arrestees will stil…
I am playing devil's advocate here, but mass surveillance can also save you.
Let's say your just broke up with your girlfriend, shortly after, her house get burgled and a bunch of jewelry is stolen, including some you gave her when you were together. A surveillance camera catches the burglar, a drug addict with a criminal record, he gets caught, tried and sentenced to 2 years in prison. The kind of case that won't get a news article, you may not even be aware of what happened.
Without the surveillance camera, you would be a prime suspect, and even if you don't get convicted in the end, there is a good chance for the police to give you a hard time.
Here is the asymmetry, if a surveillance camera prevents a wrongful arrest, no one will notice, because you don't notice things that don't happen. Only wrongful arrests caused by surveillance cameras will be noticed.
More surveillance doesn't mean more arrests, trials and convictions. These are limited by the availability of police forces, magistrates and jails respectively. Even with a total surveillance zero privacy dystopia, you can't have more arrests without the means to do so. What will change is on what grounds the arrests are made: video footage, a witness testimony, etc...
It doesn't mean I support mass surveillance (I told you I was going to play devil's advocate), but that alone doesn't mean more wrongful arrests as a whole unless something else in the system is promoting wrongful arrests.
There are legitimate concerns about Flock that don't involve wrongful arrests, such as misuse of data by operators, like for stalking, data security, which may leak to criminals, and usage for purpose other than law enforcement, like marketing. The fact that it is a private company funded by public money with dubious contracts is another concern.
Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
They don't need probable cause to search his vehicle if he had a warrant. They can search his car because they are arresting him and towing the vehicle
> They don't need probable cause to search his vehicle if he had a warrant. Incorrect. Warrants have to be specific. An arrest warrant is not a general search warrant (in fact, general search warrants aren't legal). You don't lose your rights because a cop is arresting you. Now, what can happen (and probably would happen) is the cops can take a drug sniffing dog to the car when it goes to impound and while the owner…
It's called an "Inventory Search": https://www.fletc.gov/sites/default/files/imported_files/tra...
Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
As I rudely learned when I was preparing to use the "I'm gonna do jury nullification" thing during a jury selection, there are a few states, including mine, where jury nullification is explicitly "not-stated" but not a uniquely acceptable reason to strike a juror, despite what our juror handbook might claim about violating an "oath" (you cannot be punished for "violating an oath" if you are selected). I was lucky tha…
My last stint on grand jury we had a case that none of us felt great about. It was a felony theft charge where the thief likely used the vehicle regularly but took it in the middle of the night to return home. He was at a logging camp where he pays for accommodations but they had no work for him. After 3 days he got frustrated and left in the middle of the night. Camp foreman called the law reporting the vehicle stol…
So, uh, was the guy planning on bringing the vehicle back to the logging camp? It's not obvious to me that this wasn't in fact vehicle theft.
Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search
#149This is the big problem with mass surveillance as a whole. With enough time, they'll find some pretext to bring you in, even if the original crime they want you for is weak. This will ruin lives, even if they're eventually let go. Jobs lost, evicted from homes, cars towed, pets surrendered and put down. Lives will be completely derailed, police and judges will not be held accountable. The wrongful arrestees will stil…
>This will ruin lives, even if they're eventually let go. Jobs lost, evicted from homes, cars towed, pets surrendered and put down. Yes. That's exactly the point. Comply with every little thing, no matter how absurd, or else your life will unravel. Look through a historical comment (especially from back when "big data" was the buzzword) thread on any subject where HN is pro regulation and pro government. This is EXAC…
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Re: Cops Used Flock to Track a Man Across State Lines for a Pretextual Weed Search
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
>This will ruin lives, even if they're eventually let go. Jobs lost, evicted from homes, cars towed, pets surrendered and put down. Yes. That's exactly the point. Comply with every little thing, no matter how absurd, or else your life will unravel. Look through a historical comment (especially from back when "big data" was the buzzword) thread on any subject where HN is pro regulation and pro government. This is EXAC…
All very terrifying but you're building a "Hollow Man" by using an "Appeal to Extremes". Instead of arguing against actual regulatory policy, you are mind-reading malicious intent into hypothetical scenarios (and people) you just invented. Or real examples that you're broadstroking against a "they" which is somehow "HN." I am not sure how you can justify trying to paint so broad a stroke across an entire community, o…
This argument goes too far to the other end. Never name a group, cuz by golly you’re broad stroking. Only specific character assassination is allowed or keep quiet? Like a Cancel Culture Wittgenstein.