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Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

uclahealth.org

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Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#81

Post by ProfessorLayton »

Scandiravian wrote: post #77
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> should we "cure" homosexuality? Homosexuality is also on a spectrum, and at no point does someone on that spectrum stop functioning in society because they’re gay. Being gay is only an issue because of those around them, there is nothing to “cure”. The same cannot be said about being high on the ASD scale. Someone high on this scale will have trouble staying alive without a support system, and medicine could be a c…

For the majority of autistic people (ASD-1), their issues are also solely caused by those around them As I said in my original post that spawned this thread (and I think in one or two other posts as well), people who are ASD-3 is a case where I would hope we could get better treatment options, but I'm worried about the implications such a "cure" would have for the ASD-1 part of the population My question about whethe…

It’s an absurd comparison because homosexuality is not a disorder. Full stop. It’s a non-sequiter to compare it to something that is. I’m not trying to pick on you for this, but it’s something the LGB community has been trying to get across for a long time.

You’re right that it could have implications for ASD-1, and I sympathize, but those higher on the spectrum are also the least able to advocate for themselves. Having another medical option to support them is a good thing.

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#82

Post by dns_snek »

jimnotgym wrote: post #76
dns_snek wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a philosophical question that doesn't help people who are suffering. People are alive here and now. Some people will want a cure regardless. And we'll never have a society that's perfectly inclusive and understanding enough of all disorders, so it's just wishful thinking.

They won't get a cure, because autism is not a disease. It reminds me of the idea that 'curing' people's homosexuality would make them happier. Turns out it is not possible, but in the civilised world we made things so much better for them by just not being shitty and oppressive.

Not this shit again. I don't care whether you call it a cure, a treatment leading to complete improvement of all symptoms, a therapy that rids them of their problems, or a magic happiness potion.

You can discuss the philosophy of these decisions all day long but at the end of the day, you don't get to tell other people what to do. You're no different from the "pro-life" crowd who want to ban abortion based on simplistic and idealistic view of the world.

When you berate people who are asking for more treatment options, you're not just expressing your preference, you're also trying to control theirs. My patience on this has truly run out.

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#83

Post by _DeadFred_ »

Scandiravian wrote: post #58
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, I watched parents of autistic children become ghosts/shells of who they were. It seemed like much higher divorce rates, and towards the kids reaching highschool just single, burnt out mothers barely holding things together with no social life and their world reduced to just their kid(s). The cure shouldn't just be up to the kids, but to the invisible caregivers who give up way more than average parents.

I think that's a false dichotomy. The choice is not between putting it all on "invisible caretakers" and forcing a treatment on a child without consent; a treatment that will affect them the rest of their life Here is a list of things that could also be done: - Offer better protection to parents of autistic children in relation to work - Stop trying to "normalise" autistic children in the school system, which leads t…

The things you list could have been done already. They aren't going to happen. They all require too much money for the modern world to choose them.

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#84

Post by _DeadFred_ »

pibaker wrote: post #67
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, I watched parents of autistic children become ghosts/shells of who they were. It seemed like much higher divorce rates, and towards the kids reaching highschool just single, burnt out mothers barely holding things together with no social life and their world reduced to just their kid(s). The cure shouldn't just be up to the kids, but to the invisible caregivers who give up way more than average parents.

The idea that children should be the ones to receive "treatment" for their parents' disorder is the more ghoulish thing I have heard in a while. Not only that, but to take away the children's ability to decide too. If a religious parent becomes sad and divorced because his child came out as gay, should conversion therapy be prescribed just so the parent can stay happily married?

Their parents disorders of being non-superhuman normal people who care so deeply about their children that it erodes their lives? What ghouls. Give me a break.

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#85

Post by _DeadFred_ »

LocalH wrote: post #70
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, I watched parents of autistic children become ghosts/shells of who they were. It seemed like much higher divorce rates, and towards the kids reaching highschool just single, burnt out mothers barely holding things together with no social life and their world reduced to just their kid(s). The cure shouldn't just be up to the kids, but to the invisible caregivers who give up way more than average parents.

No. Parents are often the least informed and least capable of making proper medical decisions for their children.

Luckily we have doctors and trained professionals that propose the medical decisions and research that comes up with informed plans like immunization schedules.

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#86

Post by Scandiravian »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81
Scandiravian wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the majority of autistic people (ASD-1), their issues are also solely caused by those around them As I said in my original post that spawned this thread (and I think in one or two other posts as well), people who are ASD-3 is a case where I would hope we could get better treatment options, but I'm worried about the implications such a "cure" would have for the ASD-1 part of the population My question about whethe…

It’s an absurd comparison because homosexuality is not a disorder. Full stop. It’s a non-sequiter to compare it to something that is. I’m not trying to pick on you for this, but it’s something the LGB community has been trying to get across for a long time. You’re right that it could have implications for ASD-1, and I sympathize, but those higher on the spectrum are also the least able to advocate for themselves. Hav…

Whether something is classified as a disorder is imho irrelevant. In the US homosexuality was classified as a disorder until 1973. As I've said repeatedly, society has the mental disorders it creates

In a society where the nuclear family is seen as the highest ideal and the natural state of being, anyone who is not cis and straight will be seen as someone that needs to be changed, which is why homosexuality was considered a disorder

When you have a society where capital is king and a lot of people genuinely believe that your personal productivity is a measure of your worth, anyone who do not function in the resulting "hussle-culture" will be seen as someone that will need to be changed

Yes, being autistic and homosexual are two completely different things, but treating a social construct, such as a disorder classification as natural law is just as idiotic now as it was in 1970

Whether or not people with ASD-1 are more capable of advocating for themselves is completely irrelevant if our concerns can be dismissed outright by anyone claiming to speak for ASD-3

It shows a complete disregard for the discrimination that is already occurring today which affects every verbal autistic person I know, myself included

It's a way to essentially refuse to deal with considerations such as how many people with an ASD-1 diagnosis should we as a society accept being treated, not because they actually want the treatment for themselves, but because they're subjected to social control

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#87

Post by Scandiravian »

munksbeer wrote: post #79
Scandiravian wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: people with an autism diagnosis. You are much more likely to get a diagnosis if you are in contact with the psychiatric healthcare system (e.g. if you are suicidal) Any statistics done on the subset of autistic people with a diagnosis would therefore be skewed towards the mean of the subset of the general population who are in contact with the psychiatric system There's a huge number of undiagnosed - esti…

My son is autistic. He massively struggles with life. I weep sometimes after some of his meltdowns, where he says he hates himself and wishes he didn't exist. We do our best, and I hope we can help him learn the correct coping mechanisms. But reading some of the posts here make me quite enraged. He has a medical condition. It is called ASD. Would I medicate him if it meant he had a better chance of living a happier l…

I'm genuinely sorry to hear that your son is struggling. I cannot comprehend how difficult and stressful that must be for you as a parent

I can however speak to what it's like being autistic and what would have helped me growing up - and it's wasn't medicine

I had my share of meltdowns and they were pretty much exclusively caused by being forced to fit into a rigid school system where my "weirdness" was punished by both teachers and my classmates

What I needed was teachers who had been educated in supporting neurodivergent children, a safe space where I could have gone when I needed to decompress, an academic schedule that was geared towards my needs, and counselling to help me navigate a society that is designed by and for neurotypical people

That my brain is wired differently than it is in a neurotypical person is not a medical condition

What enrages me is when I'm treated as if I'm somehow broken and need fixing. I'm sick and tired of being discriminated against and I'm even more tired of people arguing that it's somehow a super power

My needs and preferences might be different from other people, but I'm still just a person and that's what I'd like to be treated as

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#88

Post by Scandiravian »

dns_snek wrote: post #82
jimnotgym wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They won't get a cure, because autism is not a disease. It reminds me of the idea that 'curing' people's homosexuality would make them happier. Turns out it is not possible, but in the civilised world we made things so much better for them by just not being shitty and oppressive.

Not this shit again. I don't care whether you call it a cure, a treatment leading to complete improvement of all symptoms, a therapy that rids them of their problems, or a magic happiness potion. You can discuss the philosophy of these decisions all day long but at the end of the day, you don't get to tell other people what to do. You're no different from the "pro-life" crowd who want to ban abortion based on simplis…

Well, people tend to get pissy, when you completely disregard their lived experiences and concerns

You've shown little to no interest in actually understanding why myself and others have expressed concerns what a "cure" would mean for those of us with a diagnosis, including a complete disregard for the historical precedent of how people with perceived "mental disabilities" have been treated

You've run out of patience because your stance has been that we're wrong and you're right, so you need to set us straight. That's generally not a path to a fruitful conversation

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#89

Post by ProfessorLayton »

Scandiravian wrote: post #86
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an absurd comparison because homosexuality is not a disorder. Full stop. It’s a non-sequiter to compare it to something that is. I’m not trying to pick on you for this, but it’s something the LGB community has been trying to get across for a long time. You’re right that it could have implications for ASD-1, and I sympathize, but those higher on the spectrum are also the least able to advocate for themselves. Hav…

Whether something is classified as a disorder is imho irrelevant. In the US homosexuality was classified as a disorder until 1973. As I've said repeatedly, society has the mental disorders it creates In a society where the nuclear family is seen as the highest ideal and the natural state of being, anyone who is not cis and straight will be seen as someone that needs to be changed, which is why homosexuality was consi…

> Whether something is classified as a disorder is imho irrelevant. Homosexuality was classified as a disorder until 1973. As I've said repeatedly, society has the mental disorders it creates.

I believe where we’re drifting apart is that ASD *not* just a social construct. Higher levels of ASD are demonstrably more difficult or even impossible to deal without a support system.

This is not the case with homosexuality, where society simply has to stop marginalizing them for liking who they like . There is no issue with being “too gay” that society didn’t create.

Someone at the high-end of the ASD spectrum simply cannot thrive without support.

I’m very much in support of those with ASD1, and do not wish to “fix” them or even think there’s something fix in the first place. However, they’re also the most able to advocate for themselves. We can’t forget the ones that truly need help, and medicine can be one avenue for that.

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#90

Post by 47282847 »

dns_snek wrote: post #71
47282847 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is this different from other disorders, disabilities, illnesses? Not diagnosed autistic myself, but I buy into the argument that a lot of “(mental) disorders” make one allergic to the amount of subtle and less subtle daily dose of interrelational violence. Plenty of drugs exist to numb organisms. I don’t know if you’ve ever been on antidepressants or antipsychotics, but one who has might relate that that kind o…

> It’s up to each one individually to decide how much they want to be part of this “normal” or whether they prefer to be “disordered” even if it comes with certain limitations. I completely agree. And I've never been on antidepressants but I take Concerta (stimulant) for ADHD and I've heard many say that they feel like zombies on stimulants. I've never felt like a zombie, it just takes the "edge" off by making it eas…

Yeah. It’s an unfortunate trauma response.
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