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Europe EV Sales BEVs Jump 50% & Reach 26% Market Share

cleantechnica.com

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Re: Europe EV Sales BEVs Jump 50% & Reach 26% Market Share

#111

Post by stavros »

belorn wrote: post #92
reverius42 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a gas station at my house, and yet I still own a gas-powered vehicle. I also don't have a fast electric charger at my house, and yet I still also own an EV.

I have compared prices in fast-charging stations to gasoline here in Sweden, and a gasoline car get more miles for the money. The price can be up to 100x, or 10000% that of the market price that the fast-charging stations buy their electricity from. And even with that, very few places seems to be willing to build competing charging stations that will undercut those prices. The only way to actually save money is to ha…

In Greece, fast charging is 4x more expensive than slow charging at home. Slow electricity is around 4x cheaper than gas, so you're right, fast charging makes it about even.

Good thing I only need to fast charge a few times a year, on long trips (or consecutive trips away from home/a plug).

Re: Europe EV Sales BEVs Jump 50% & Reach 26% Market Share

#112

Post by stavros »

aetherspawn wrote: post #103
reverius42 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very skeptical that your Model 3 has a "practical range" of 372 miles. EPA range for the long range model is 342 miles, and I would expect usable range to be considerably less (since you probably want to start charging at around 10% remaining, and you probably want to stop charging at 80-90%). 0% - 100% is kind of not "practical" as it would require you to fully deplete the battery, and then wait for the slow ch…

Practical meaning I don’t plan to ever drive more than 600km per day so if it’s 600km from A->B, and then a 8 hour charge, that’s fine by me… if I want 700km I’ll stop and charge for 5 min at 30% SOC or so

But the GP is saying a Tesla won't do 600km on one charge, which does sound reasonable.

I agree with you about just stopping to charge for a few minutes along the way if I need more, though.

Re: Europe EV Sales BEVs Jump 50% & Reach 26% Market Share

#113

Post by stavros »

medler wrote: post #98
tialaramex wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy it. "Recharging == Fuel" is the wrong way to think about it. Think about your phone. Do you plan how you'll charge that quickly? Do you know where you can get a quick charge at a local mall while ordering coffee? Nope, it just gets charged over night when you're asleep, no problem.

I agree charging at home/work is best, and ideally we would have ubiquitous slow charging at apartment lots, workplaces, and on the street. But that’s not really realistic right now in the U.S., and more importantly, it isn’t under Tesla’s control. Whereas they could have solved the problem for people with less charging access by making their fast charging faster like BYD has done. With respect to your phone analogy,…

I think you're both right. An EV is wonderful if you can charge at home, and a chore if you can't. Fast chargers help, but they're expensive and still not as fast as gas.

If you have a wall plug at home, an EV is basically always full. I'm shopping for a flat and one of my non-negotiable requirements is a parking spot with a plug. The one I'm looking at now even has a three-phase plug, which is a nice extra, but not really necessary.

Re: Europe EV Sales BEVs Jump 50% & Reach 26% Market Share

#114

Post by thinkcontext »

asdff wrote: post #71
kevinqi wrote: post #31

does anyone have a data-backed reason as to why US market share has capped out around 10%? is it economics + lack of access to chinese EVs? range anxiety?

I’d guess a greater percent of car owners in the US are working class. A lot of cities car modal share is like 85% or higher which shows how much car ownership is democratized in the US compared to asia or eu, where ownership might be higher relative income and more able to afford new ev premium prices vs cheap used gas cars.

We're talking about new cars, which in the US the average price of is $50K. The working class tends to buy used cars, of which 3 times more than new cars are sold each year.

Re: Europe EV Sales BEVs Jump 50% & Reach 26% Market Share

#115

Post by tialaramex »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #56

> Thanks to a number of factors (new cheaper models, high gas prices, mass arrival of Chinese models, etc.), EVs are currently in high demand in Europe. EVs are in high demand in the EU because laws have been passed in every country and ICE are getting banned in many cities. Chinese EVs did flood the EU not because people did want to buy chinese EVs: people in the EU were totally fine buying ICE cars (german, french,…

You imply that ICE is banned when in reality many European cities decided to require that you stop polluting their city by meeting newer standards but a brand new ICE car would do that too today, the problem is always that people think a car produced twenty years ago (or like yours, 38 years ago) ought to count, because hey, by the standards of twenty years ago it didn't pollute very much. Standards change. Fifty years ago you could smoke on an aeroplane, today you can't! When my mother first went out to work it wasn't yet legal for her to have her own bank account, the money was hers, her ancestors won that right, she was an individual who could own things and not legally a component part of her father, but banks didn't give out accounts here without a man's say so. By the time she had me, that changed and they'd also banned employers from paying her less because she was a woman.

Amsterdam's current plan says they'll eliminate ICE from their city centre by 2030. I have no idea why you'd drive in central Amsterdam anyway, seems like a terrible idea - but if you insist on doing it after 2030 you'll need an electric vehicle. But that's not today is it? Things change.

Yes, Reduce, Re-use, Re-cycle is in that order for a reason. It's good that you're continuing to use this old car while it meets your needs. A dense European city may well not want you there because the trade-off sucks too bad for them.

And while China does use proportionally more coal than Europe today and likely for the foreseeable future, like European leadership Xi can do the math. The problem I have with Trump is that I'm not sure he even understands the problem, obviously if he did understand he'd lie about it, but I'm just not sure he's even lying, I think he might well be too stupid to understand.

Re: Europe EV Sales BEVs Jump 50% & Reach 26% Market Share

#116

Post by dsunds »

I need to replace a 20 yr old Prius. I’d be a natural Tesla customer if not for Elon. All the BEV cars I like have been cancelled by their manufacturers. I want value and I keep my cars a long time. What should have been a slam dunk purchase has become disappointment. I’ll be buying another hybrid.

Re: Europe EV Sales BEVs Jump 50% & Reach 26% Market Share

#117

Post by krelian »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #56

> Thanks to a number of factors (new cheaper models, high gas prices, mass arrival of Chinese models, etc.), EVs are currently in high demand in Europe. EVs are in high demand in the EU because laws have been passed in every country and ICE are getting banned in many cities. Chinese EVs did flood the EU not because people did want to buy chinese EVs: people in the EU were totally fine buying ICE cars (german, french,…

Yes there are incentives to buy EVs but they are still much more expensive than ICE vehicles (I'm in the market for a new car so that is an observation from my experience)

Re: Europe EV Sales BEVs Jump 50% & Reach 26% Market Share

#118

Post by slaw »

testing22321 wrote: post #69
Grombobulous wrote: post #32

The US auto industry under its pro-oil policy incentives is in for a disastrous long-term outlook in exchange for short-term prosperity. At best, it’ll be a situation where the US market is segregated from the rest of the world: US auto consumers will be buying inferior vehicles from the rest of world that are more expensive to buy and own, since they will only be viable in the US market and will only be built in the…

And Canadians will soon stop buying the inferior US vehicles (and Mexico already has), because Chinese EVs are now allowed in at only 6% tariff. BYD are taking over.

Chinese made vehicles are limited to 49000/year only. 2.5% of Canadian market.

Re: Europe EV Sales BEVs Jump 50% & Reach 26% Market Share

#119

Post by IncreasePosts »

kccqzy wrote: post #79
aetherspawn wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having owned a Model 3 I would argue that it’s basically “done” at this point, pending software updates for better FSD. It already charges in 20-30 min at Tesla chargers and has a practical range of around 600 kms, so super fast charging is a bit of a straw man. Their big downfall is they lack an advertising department willing to spend $1B on pro-electric propaganda to debunk all the Trump/big oil propaganda. IMO EVs…

You think it’s done only because you are not ambitious enough. And neither is Tesla. A Hyundai charges faster than a Tesla. Chinese cars from several brands are getting five-minute charging times. If you think that’s a straw man I don’t know what to say; a buyer wants charging to be as fast as pumping gas, and are you going to blame buyer stupidity for not delivering on that?

Yes, I would blame the buyer for thinking it's important at this point. It's almost a meme response to EVs.

All you need to do is an honest look at how many days a year you drive 500+ miles per day. People can't seem to do that and fixate on the ultra long distance road trip that they might make once per year. And neglecting to realize that they stop for bathroom breaks and food and so the actual time you're simply waiting for charging is, at best, maybe 20-30 minutes per year.

99% of the time you would be plugging your car into the charger at your house. And it just charges overnight.

I guess it's different if people have no way to charge their car at home or have it plugged in overnight. But in that case a lot of times they can pick up charge while at work, or whole doing grocery shopping, etc.

Re: Europe EV Sales BEVs Jump 50% & Reach 26% Market Share

#120

Post by __m »

Rohansi wrote: post #97
pinkyboy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you can plug almost any modern EV into the Tesla supercharging network without issue. However, unlike Teslas, you can _also_ plug and charge them in other networks. On self-driving: if you want true autonomy, where you can relax and do something else entirely while you drive, the answers are Waymo, Apollo Go, and to a lesser extent: rideshare. Every other system requires that you sit in the driver's seat, pay att…

> Which means that ongoing improvements don't actually buy you much of anything, because having to handle an exception every 50 miles isn't a better experience than having to handle one very 5 miles. That's what I thought too but after trying FSD on HW4 for two months I really think they are almost there. HW3 was really bad but I didn't need to intervene once with HW4. I think their biggest hurdle will be more of a l…

If it is so good why don't they take liability? They aren't even willing to risk money while you are ready to risk your life...
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