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Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

android-developers.googleblog.com

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Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#421

Post by codedokode »

giantg2 wrote: post #419
codedokode wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) When buying a device, store employee could program user's age range. 2) When configuring a device, parent may toggle "child mode" checkbox to switch the device into "child mode", protected with a password or fingerprint. 3) The tokens, containing a private key (same for all tokens) can be sold in liquor stores to adults only. This token could confirm the age without a passport. It is interesting that is US (unless…

Number 2 is basically here for many things, but not as easy as a single checkbox. Number 3 is something I've thought about, but it seems that's never seriously discussed in politics.

There should be a single checkbox (when setting up the phone), and "configure" button hidden deep in the settings for the minority. Most people do not like complicated UIs and unnecessary work.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#422

Post by yieldcrv »

RandomGerm4n wrote: post #154

I'm fundamentally opposed to age verification because it usually leads to mandatory account creation no matter how privacy friendly the age verification process itself may be. It's already extremely annoying that, for example, on YouTube, you can no longer watch many videos without an account. Furthermore, the whole thing also reinforces monopolies. Once you've verified your age on one platform, the barrier to switch…

> Furthermore, the whole thing also reinforces monopolies.

when the state gives you an exception to antitrust scrutiny that will survive between administrations, you take it

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#423

Post by codedokode »

Marsymars wrote: post #340
LelouBil wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Force a PEGI-like system for every apps please. It would be awesome.

The App/Play stores already basically have that, you can't submit apps without age ratings. One spot where it's a bit weird is for utility apps that don't have any "mature" content but that obviously isn't intended for kids, so e.g. your tax prep app gets rated as "Ages 4+".

There is nothing wrong if a teenager wants to know more about taxes. Although exposure to tax rates might cause a slight emotional trauma.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#424

Post by squigz »

giantg2 wrote: post #419
codedokode wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) When buying a device, store employee could program user's age range. 2) When configuring a device, parent may toggle "child mode" checkbox to switch the device into "child mode", protected with a password or fingerprint. 3) The tokens, containing a private key (same for all tokens) can be sold in liquor stores to adults only. This token could confirm the age without a passport. It is interesting that is US (unless…

Number 2 is basically here for many things, but not as easy as a single checkbox. Number 3 is something I've thought about, but it seems that's never seriously discussed in politics.

Not only would #3 be ineffective, it would affect poor people a lot more.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#425

Post by HDBaseT »

wongarsu wrote: post #387
giantg2 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What might those be? Everything I've seen is ineffective or can be compromised. I think letting parents parent is probably the best option, but will require better/easier/free tools and education to help lock down different categories of harm.

Website generates a random nounce, the government offers to sign the json { over_18: true, nounce: [inserted_here] }. That signing is coupled to you being signed in, or scanning your passport via nfc or whatever That significantly reduces the leaked information: the service doesn't receive any information who you are, and the government doesn't know what service you use. They can collude, but that does not reveal mor…

The word nounce is used to describe a sex offender, at least in the UK.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#426

Post by HDBaseT »

fn-mote wrote: post #272
izend wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a parent? I have personally used the parental controls on Android, iOS and ChromeOS and to be honest they are terrible. Issues with syncing changes, the terrible UX for parental access control (iOS...), issues around audit/access logs, issues around prompting the parent for access. I am honestly shocked that Apple known for its polished experience hasn't been forced by angry parents. My daughter's school actu…

> my daughter was caught playing web games in class Hilarious to me. The biggest game of whack-a-mole ever. I would love to know if this lockdown was successful (and if so, how it worked). In my city, there is a district that is so “locked down” that the images from Wikipedia don’t even load. But guess what? Kids still find ways to play games.

They need to be using deep packet inspection to get reliable and useful blocks.

If you cannot install their self-signed cert on your device (i.e non-managed device) then you likely aren't being MitM and thus, restrictions are hard.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#427

Post by annzabelle »

codedokode wrote: post #416
giantg2 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What might those be? Everything I've seen is ineffective or can be compromised. I think letting parents parent is probably the best option, but will require better/easier/free tools and education to help lock down different categories of harm.

1) When buying a device, store employee could program user's age range. 2) When configuring a device, parent may toggle "child mode" checkbox to switch the device into "child mode", protected with a password or fingerprint. 3) The tokens, containing a private key (same for all tokens) can be sold in liquor stores to adults only. This token could confirm the age without a passport. It is interesting that is US (unless…

I've never had to do a selfie or a passport for Reddit or Discord, including in the US and Australia.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#428

Post by codedokode »

izend wrote: post #237
RandomGerm4n wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is quite simple. You just don't verify it. The point isn’t to verify the age but to set the age on the device itself. If the parents set the age on the cell phone or computer, that setting is then used as the basis. The operating systems can be configured so that only the device administrator can change the age. Systemd already has a field for storing the age, which programs can read. If the child doesn’t…

Are you a parent? I have personally used the parental controls on Android, iOS and ChromeOS and to be honest they are terrible. Issues with syncing changes, the terrible UX for parental access control (iOS...), issues around audit/access logs, issues around prompting the parent for access. I am honestly shocked that Apple known for its polished experience hasn't been forced by angry parents. My daughter's school actu…

Probably parental control do not bring any profit (they actually add responsibilities, like restriction on ads, collection of data) so the large companies sabotage them by making them too complicated or broken?

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#429

Post by annzabelle »

skybrian wrote: post #412
RandomGerm4n wrote: post #154

I'm fundamentally opposed to age verification because it usually leads to mandatory account creation no matter how privacy friendly the age verification process itself may be. It's already extremely annoying that, for example, on YouTube, you can no longer watch many videos without an account. Furthermore, the whole thing also reinforces monopolies. Once you've verified your age on one platform, the barrier to switch…

Attempting to prevent websites from learning about their audience is difficult. For example, Lego has a "play zone" and it has other pages geared towards adults. You get an immediate popup asking if you want to go to the play zone or not. If a user clicks on play zone, that's a good signal (but not guaranteed) that they're probably a child. Preventing this would be difficult. If there are any behavioral differences b…

I went to Australia recently, which is famous for requiring age verification on websites. When I first landed, Discord blocked a few channels I was in, but within a couple hours it was all unblocked with no action from me. Both Reddit and Discord worked with full functionality. My best guess is they have some sort of behavioral information that suggests I am extremely unlikely to be a minor.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#430

Post by JoshTriplett »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #409
autoexec wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only acceptable solution would be for apps and websites to simply include a recommended age. Allowing parents to configure their children’s devices to block services that require users to be older than the specified age or that do not provide an age rating. That just entertains the false justification for what is ultimately about surveillance and control. There are privacy preserving alternatives to accounts an…

If indeed the push for age verification is being done under false pretenses as you suggest, then one should propose solutions that accomplish the stated goals while preserving privacy. Either the solutions will be accepted, or the people advancing false pretenses will be forced to come up with new false pretenses, which will weaken their arguments. Either way is a win.

> then one should propose solutions that accomplish the stated goals while preserving privacy

Solution: sites and apps optionally provide metadata suggesting their content/age-appropriateness, parents locally configure software to look at that metadata (including what to do with things that don't have metadata), or they don't, depending on their parenting style and the maturity of their child. Done. No laws or identification or invasive measures required.

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