Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

android-developers.googleblog.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 549 posts

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#381

Post by Gander5739 »

autoexec wrote: post #374
giantg2 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What might those be? Everything I've seen is ineffective or can be compromised. I think letting parents parent is probably the best option, but will require better/easier/free tools and education to help lock down different categories of harm.

There's nothing that can't be worked around or compromised in some way. Even the face scans and ID scans being used today are being circumvented. In the end we do need parents to parent, but websites should help. The easiest way would be for websites to send an HTTP header to the client so that censorware can know to block or allow it accordingly.

> The easiest way would be for websites to send an HTTP header to the client so that censorware can know to block or allow it accordingly.

That sounds very similar to the suggestion of the original commenter, that you responded to with

>> That just entertains the false justification for what is ultimately about surveillance and control.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#382

Post by kova12 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #93
random_ind_dude wrote: post #61

I think it's the old that need to be protected more on the Internet since they disproportionately fall prey to online scams. So let's age-gate their access to online services too. If you are old and want to send money to someone, you get age-gating and second-factor authorization from a competent young person. If you want to watch porn online, believe it or not, age-gating and second-factor authorization.

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to that either. If we're protecting kids, we should also protect the old and feeble. Old people, people with developmental handicaps, you name it: they're being exposed to a world that can and will abuse you if you have any faith in humanity left and don't have the technical skills to identify things like fake domains and scam sites. For some reason we're making sure no 12 year old can…

It would be hilarious when some services become unavailable to 55+. The whole age check scam will dissolve in a heartbeat

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#383

Post by weberer »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #341
DANmode wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re still pretending the Bilderberg Meeting (and similar stuff) don’t exist, and don’t assist in orchestrating big, cross-border paradigm shifts like this?

If it just takes a few hundred rich people meeting up a few times a year to manipulate the world economy of billions, that says a lot about the world to begin with.

>If it just takes a few hundred rich people meeting up a few times a year

A few hundred rich people and the world's politicians. Having secret off-the-record meetings, yes.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#384

Post by thewebguyd »

1dom wrote: post #299
account42 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And instead of an age you could even make the indication about what is potentially objectionable so that parents can choose when to allow their kids to see what - and adults can also choose to avoid certain things.

I might be being overly cynical here, but I think part of the problem is parents expect to give their kids the internet so they don't have to spend so much time/attention with them. I think this means any solution which involves active parent participation is going to get shunned by a vocal subset. I'm in my mid 30's. When I was very young I remember my Dad semi-regularly having to email or even fax off permission sl…

> any solution which involves active parent participation is going to get shunned by a vocal subset

Then we certainly shouldn't be passing laws mandating age verification. If parents want to abdicate their responsibility over their children, it's not the role of government to enshrine that abdication into law and take over the duty of parenting from them.

If regulation is to be had, then it should take the form of mandating websites and services provide privacy preserving tools for parents to use, if they want to use them. If they don't, that's on them. Everyone else needn't suffer because a subset of the population has chosen to offload their responsibility into the government and web services.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#385

Post by johnnyanmac »

weberer wrote: post #383
johnnyanmac wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it just takes a few hundred rich people meeting up a few times a year to manipulate the world economy of billions, that says a lot about the world to begin with.

>If it just takes a few hundred rich people meeting up a few times a year A few hundred rich people and the world's politicians. Having secret off-the-record meetings, yes.

Yes, worlds politicians, many in western worlds voted in. We need to watch our supposed watchmen

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#386

Post by alightsoul »

RandomGerm4n wrote: post #154

I'm fundamentally opposed to age verification because it usually leads to mandatory account creation no matter how privacy friendly the age verification process itself may be. It's already extremely annoying that, for example, on YouTube, you can no longer watch many videos without an account. Furthermore, the whole thing also reinforces monopolies. Once you've verified your age on one platform, the barrier to switch…

I am not sure creating an account is seen as an issue anymore given that the vast majority already have one. However yes as you say it helps create a monopoly. Combine that with a doomscrolling algorithmic feed on like YouTube and that's how you create a moat: age verification and doomscrolling.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#387

Post by wongarsu »

giantg2 wrote: post #368
autoexec wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only acceptable solution would be for apps and websites to simply include a recommended age. Allowing parents to configure their children’s devices to block services that require users to be older than the specified age or that do not provide an age rating. That just entertains the false justification for what is ultimately about surveillance and control. There are privacy preserving alternatives to accounts an…

What might those be? Everything I've seen is ineffective or can be compromised. I think letting parents parent is probably the best option, but will require better/easier/free tools and education to help lock down different categories of harm.

Website generates a random nounce, the government offers to sign the json { over_18: true, nounce: [inserted_here] }. That signing is coupled to you being signed in, or scanning your passport via nfc or whatever

That significantly reduces the leaked information: the service doesn't receive any information who you are, and the government doesn't know what service you use. They can collude, but that does not reveal more to them than most current age-verification methods. Children can get another adult to sign their request, but that's a working attack on nearly any age verification (including in-person purchases)

Of course this doesn't replace parenting

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#388

Post by jjulius »

reorder9695 wrote: post #158
_davide_ wrote: post #128

Seriously ready to fully drop google emails and services, i'm using vivaldi + personal email for a while now, the migration was slow a bit painful but complete. Only the phone is still attached to play store and google, but i'm 100% ready to switch to the fully supported Chinese variant of ColorOS and flush Google into the toilet once and for all. But my next phone will 100% be a Sailfish again.

For me to fully drop google someone needs to create something compatible with Android Auto in my car, it doesn't sound like a big deal but that's a big enough thing for me to need it now.

Standalone Garmin for nav and Bluetooth for music is all anyone should need.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#389

Post by egorfine »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #211

Well, the API itself seems fairly well designed from a privacy perspective. It only shares age ranges, not specific ages, and only if you allow it. The data is also fuzzed to prevent an app from determining your exact birth date, and it's all tied in to the parental control system.[1] The problem remains though that, since the laws this feature was created to comply with put the onus on Google to verify the user's ag…

Look, it's just a start. Up next: KYC via Persona to use your phone.

This is kind of inevitable.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#390

Post by palata »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #244
palata wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of people who are marginalised is... marginal. By definition it doesn't have a sensible impact on profit. That's precisely why it is a problem to be marginalised.

Isn’t that… life? Even literal regulated electricity utilities aren’t expected to provide service to every last marginal customer. For example, a poor old grandma missing many electricity bill payments usually will see leniency if she is polite, the utility eventually won’t try to collect cash anymore and instead put a lien on the home while continuing to provide service. But if the billing department receives multip…

Not entirely sure what you are trying to say, other than you don't really care as long as you are not the one who is marginalised.

Anyway it's generally a tradeoff: is it worth doing it? By adding very strict age verification systems and marginalising people, do we make society globally better or not? Will those age verification systems work to prevent underage people from accessing the stuff we don't want them to access in the first place? Not clear. If they do, will it result in underage people being better? Not clear. And if it does, will it have been worth the damage on the people it marginalised? Not clear.

Post reply on HN