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Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

android-developers.googleblog.com

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Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#151

Post by [deleted] »

K0nserv wrote: post #24
iamflimflam1 wrote: post #16

I find myself stuck on the fence with age checks. Companies have show that they are incapable or unwilling to address the problems they cause. And market forces are not working to correct things. It’s also pretty obvious that saying “parent should take responsibility” is also not working. Just observe the world around you to know it’s a non starter. This is where regulation is supposed to come in. At the same time, c…

I don't want the market solving this. If we are going to do age checks it should be based on public key cryptography, be open source, and handled by the government. You verify with the government (or don't since they already know your age), you get some form of cryptographic attestation, present said attestation to websites/apps. I'm not a fan of age verification in the first place, but I am extremely not a fan of ra…

[deleted]

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#152

Post by ben_w »

Xelbair wrote: post #101
iamflimflam1 wrote: post #16

I find myself stuck on the fence with age checks. Companies have show that they are incapable or unwilling to address the problems they cause. And market forces are not working to correct things. It’s also pretty obvious that saying “parent should take responsibility” is also not working. Just observe the world around you to know it’s a non starter. This is where regulation is supposed to come in. At the same time, c…

>It’s also pretty obvious that saying “parent should take responsibility” is also not working. Just observe the world around you to know it’s a non starter. Then who should? Government, where each implementation strips away rights to privacy - which in some countries, including mine, are a constitutional right? Where it expands powers of government to track everyone's activity online - and remember we're one election…

In principle, it is possible to make a privacy-preserving age check.

Site/app asks "≥18?", device generates a UUID specifically for that [app/domain + device], the device passes that UUID to government database along with the "≥18?" question and the ID card info but not the app/domain, government database gives the answer and signs just the UUID and the answer and doesn't include any ID card info.

Government doesn't know what you're looking at, website doesn't know your ID.

(There's probably also better ways to do all this, I'm not a cryptographer and I expect that will be obvious from this comment to people who are).

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#153

Post by ta8903 »

Just like every new Android "feature", the first thing that comes to mind when reading this is how will it work if you aren't logged in to Google on your phone. Am I supposed to give up and pretend it's normal to have to log in to an online account to use a personal computer?

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#154

Post by RandomGerm4n »

I'm fundamentally opposed to age verification because it usually leads to mandatory account creation no matter how privacy friendly the age verification process itself may be. It's already extremely annoying that, for example, on YouTube, you can no longer watch many videos without an account. Furthermore, the whole thing also reinforces monopolies. Once you've verified your age on one platform, the barrier to switching to another is even higher than before.

The only acceptable solution would be for apps and websites to simply include a recommended age. Allowing parents to configure their children’s devices to block services that require users to be older than the specified age or that do not provide an age rating. Once this were established, websites targeting all age groups would have a strong incentive to participate. Otherwise, they would suddenly become invisible to a large portion of their underage users.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#156

Post by hellcow »

xinayder wrote: post #11

Can't we build a gateway in the internet that detects if someone is a influential CEO or something and just bar access to the internet?

There's a Pink Floyd song about just such a thing, Fletcher Memorial Home: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDDzR2zSgsM

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#157

Post by ben_w »

inigyou wrote: post #116
owbt wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who? The lawmakers? I believe banning children up to a certain age from having Internet-enabled mobile devices is a good starting point, and both child protection services and law enforcement services should fully cooperate with parents in enforcing that ban. If you see a kid smoking a cigarette or taking drugs, you know parents have failed somewhere along the road and it would be preferable if the government could s…

This is a reasonable perspective, but don't you think the internet has the potential to do good as well as evil? I remember seeing some interactive lever applet as a kid where you could move the fulcrum. (Slightly) educational stuff. Shouldn't that be allowed?

Educational content was already a thing well before the internet got everywhere.

When I was in primary school, one of the things teachers had us do was debate the pros- and cons- of television. The pro side included educational content.

First Windows PC at any of my schools had Encarta.

Wikipedia can be downloaded in entirety and read offline, though it is so broad it may need a degree of filtering to become age-appropriate even for 16 year olds.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#158

Post by reorder9695 »

_davide_ wrote: post #128

Seriously ready to fully drop google emails and services, i'm using vivaldi + personal email for a while now, the migration was slow a bit painful but complete. Only the phone is still attached to play store and google, but i'm 100% ready to switch to the fully supported Chinese variant of ColorOS and flush Google into the toilet once and for all. But my next phone will 100% be a Sailfish again.

For me to fully drop google someone needs to create something compatible with Android Auto in my car, it doesn't sound like a big deal but that's a big enough thing for me to need it now.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#159

Post by azernik »

RandomGerm4n wrote: post #154

I'm fundamentally opposed to age verification because it usually leads to mandatory account creation no matter how privacy friendly the age verification process itself may be. It's already extremely annoying that, for example, on YouTube, you can no longer watch many videos without an account. Furthermore, the whole thing also reinforces monopolies. Once you've verified your age on one platform, the barrier to switch…

Your second paragraph describes the approach in the blog post almost exactly.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#160

Post by Xelbair »

ben_w wrote: post #152
Xelbair wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s also pretty obvious that saying “parent should take responsibility” is also not working. Just observe the world around you to know it’s a non starter. Then who should? Government, where each implementation strips away rights to privacy - which in some countries, including mine, are a constitutional right? Where it expands powers of government to track everyone's activity online - and remember we're one election…

In principle, it is possible to make a privacy-preserving age check. Site/app asks "≥18?", device generates a UUID specifically for that [app/domain + device], the device passes that UUID to government database along with the "≥18?" question and the ID card info but not the app/domain, government database gives the answer and signs just the UUID and the answer and doesn't include any ID card info. Government doesn't…

In reality, the ones making such check will want extra capabilities 'just in case' as we observe now, or just go for simpler solution because it's cheaper.

How does it prevent fingerprinting if you get access to both logs and try to time it? Even more so if you include already present tracking infrastructure, which as a government you can just request data from.

It is possible to de-anonymize people based on aggregate data already, and this proposed solution just adds extra data points.

Even in countries in which this requires a subpoena, agencies break the law frequently and don't get punished.

Legal systems aren't computer systems. This isn't a technical problem but a social/political one.

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