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Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

android-developers.googleblog.com

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Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#351

Post by patmorgan23 »

mrtksn wrote: post #187
RandomGerm4n wrote: post #154

I'm fundamentally opposed to age verification because it usually leads to mandatory account creation no matter how privacy friendly the age verification process itself may be. It's already extremely annoying that, for example, on YouTube, you can no longer watch many videos without an account. Furthermore, the whole thing also reinforces monopolies. Once you've verified your age on one platform, the barrier to switch…

At glance this looks reasonable but how do you enforce that kids connection always goes through the parents control? You are just moving the verification point to another gate, it means that no anonymous connections are possible anymore to the entire Internet because we want to allow parents to control their kids. You want to use your friends Wi-Fi? Now that requires full identification so that we know that its not s…

"how do you enforce that kids connection always goes to the parents"

That's the thing. You don't.

It's the parents job to monitor how their children use the Internet.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#352

Post by LelouBil »

Marsymars wrote: post #340
LelouBil wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Force a PEGI-like system for every apps please. It would be awesome.

The App/Play stores already basically have that, you can't submit apps without age ratings. One spot where it's a bit weird is for utility apps that don't have any "mature" content but that obviously isn't intended for kids, so e.g. your tax prep app gets rated as "Ages 4+".

Yes, that's why the system should be a bit different.

It should indicate notable features that influence the rating, like PEGI includes "online content" "gambling" and so on

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#353

Post by kelseyfrog »

sharperguy wrote: post #215
vorpalhex wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a parent issue, the same as if their kid has a secret stash of cocaine or enjoys dancing in traffic. No technical measure can fix stupid.

No obviously we can just require that drug dealers make sure they distribute cocaine in packets that only open for adults.

Child resistant pill bottles are not shown to reduce accidental overdose[1].

1. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6124998/

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#354

Post by kelseyfrog »

vorpalhex wrote: post #213
mrtksn wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not parents issue. That's why we go after people who sell or give drugs to kids. Is a serious offense, we don't wave our hands and say its parents problem and not drugging kids is a popular policy unlike drug enforcement for adults.

Everything is a parents issue. If you are depending on the police to keep your kid from doing drugs, you have failed as a parent. I promise you, your kid can locate drugs better than the cops can arrest low level dealers. You as a parent need to teach your kid how to behave (mostly through things like teaching ethics and morals) not by running a safe prison until your kid is 18. And yes, I am a parent of multiple kid…

If we want parental behavior to change, we have to change the incentives. Parents must be held criminally liable for exposing their children to social media. Until we change the incentives, 'parents need to parent' is just an empty slogan.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#355

Post by undersuit »

0x696C6961 wrote: post #85
K0nserv wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want the market solving this. If we are going to do age checks it should be based on public key cryptography, be open source, and handled by the government. You verify with the government (or don't since they already know your age), you get some form of cryptographic attestation, present said attestation to websites/apps. I'm not a fan of age verification in the first place, but I am extremely not a fan of ra…

This is scary though too. If the gov managed a key server like this, almost all companies would start requiring it. But this effectively gives the gov a very easy way to lock you out of everything.

I'm already locked out by many of the private companies so...

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#356

Post by infinitezest »

reorder9695 wrote: post #158
_davide_ wrote: post #128

Seriously ready to fully drop google emails and services, i'm using vivaldi + personal email for a while now, the migration was slow a bit painful but complete. Only the phone is still attached to play store and google, but i'm 100% ready to switch to the fully supported Chinese variant of ColorOS and flush Google into the toilet once and for all. But my next phone will 100% be a Sailfish again.

For me to fully drop google someone needs to create something compatible with Android Auto in my car, it doesn't sound like a big deal but that's a big enough thing for me to need it now.

What's your main use case? Maps?

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#357

Post by undersuit »

baby_souffle wrote: post #226
ben_w wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In principle, it is possible to make a privacy-preserving age check. Site/app asks "≥18?", device generates a UUID specifically for that [app/domain + device], the device passes that UUID to government database along with the "≥18?" question and the ID card info but not the app/domain, government database gives the answer and signs just the UUID and the answer and doesn't include any ID card info. Government doesn't…

This can’t work because it creates a market for people that have an ID that cleared gates to lease/borrow to those that can’t.

And the verification systems rushing at us are immune to this?

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#358

Post by ben_w »

baby_souffle wrote: post #226
ben_w wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In principle, it is possible to make a privacy-preserving age check. Site/app asks "≥18?", device generates a UUID specifically for that [app/domain + device], the device passes that UUID to government database along with the "≥18?" question and the ID card info but not the app/domain, government database gives the answer and signs just the UUID and the answer and doesn't include any ID card info. Government doesn't…

This can’t work because it creates a market for people that have an ID that cleared gates to lease/borrow to those that can’t.

It cannot work *perfectly*, but unlike most crypto stuff, it doesn't have to (at least, that part doesn't need to). It's a social/political problem, not a technical one.

The goal doesn't even need to be to make a completely perfect, impossible to circumvent, barrier for all minors; all this needs to do is just make it equally difficult for a minor to get adult (for whatever definition thereof) content online as it is to get tobacco or alcohol or gambling in real life, the hard part being to do so without compromising privacy, privacy being the bit which has to be done perfectly.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#359

Post by undersuit »

mmis1000 wrote: post #245

I doubt the purpose is even age verification. They already can know I have a visa card which is credit card that can be only applied by an adult by looking at the BIN. Why they need my id card if the purpose is actually age verification?

My Google account is 20 years old, I hope I'm covered by that.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#360

Post by handedness »

ben_w wrote: post #234
baby_souffle wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All that psych testing Facebook have used for evil, can also catch bugs and loopholes faster than kids can figure them out What would be the incentive for meta to deploy that against their own self interests? > Will it be a constant fight as kids keep finding loopholes? Indeed. Good thing there are no other issues we as a species face. Let’s burn resources on a sysphian task because what else were we going to do wi…

> What would be the incentive for meta to deploy that against their own self interests? The normal method is passing laws. That's kinda the point of laws. Zuckerberg may be arrogant as hell, think he can bully governments into bending over backwards for him, governments have guns and get to arrest (and have in the past arrested) anyone local who does what Zuckerberg says instead of what the laws say when they are in…

> Zuckerberg may be arrogant as hell, think he can bully governments into bending over backwards for him, governments have guns and get to arrest (and have in the past arrested) anyone local who does what Zuckerberg says instead of what the laws say when they are in conflict.

In an ideal world. Personal experience has shown that isn't the case with him.

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