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Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

android-developers.googleblog.com

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Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#181
post #25
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. Though I have mixed feelings buying new pixel from Google after all these actions.

I don't. When they start making shit hardware, stop buying their hardware. As long as it's good, buy it. That's a free market price signal.

I don't think there's enough GrapheneOS users to make a 'free market price signal' here

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is scary though too. If the gov managed a key server like this, almost all companies would start requiring it. But this effectively gives the gov a very easy way to lock you out of everything.

EU already does this with the eIDAS system and it works quite well.

[dead]

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#183

I'm fundamentally opposed to age verification because it usually leads to mandatory account creation no matter how privacy friendly the age verification process itself may be. It's already extremely annoying that, for example, on YouTube, you can no longer watch many videos without an account. Furthermore, the whole thing also reinforces monopolies. Once you've verified your age on one platform, the barrier to switch…

Many years ago I worked a technical support job for Xbox services, and the amount of calls about "unauthorized charges" was obscene. Xbox provided parental controls, but it required the parent to set up their child's account themselves, and many couldn't be bothered.

I imagine the same thing will happen here...

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#184
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s also pretty obvious that saying “parent should take responsibility” is also not working. Just observe the world around you to know it’s a non starter. Then who should? Government, where each implementation strips away rights to privacy - which in some countries, including mine, are a constitutional right? Where it expands powers of government to track everyone's activity online - and remember we're one election…

In principle, it is possible to make a privacy-preserving age check. Site/app asks "≥18?", device generates a UUID specifically for that [app/domain + device], the device passes that UUID to government database along with the "≥18?" question and the ID card info but not the app/domain, government database gives the answer and signs just the UUID and the answer and doesn't include any ID card info. Government doesn't…

> Government doesn't know what you're looking at, website doesn't know your ID.

But then the government knows your location at any point of time and how often you use websites requiring the age check. Also, if your device is configured to do it automatically, a child can also follow this verification.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#185

I'm fundamentally opposed to age verification because it usually leads to mandatory account creation no matter how privacy friendly the age verification process itself may be. It's already extremely annoying that, for example, on YouTube, you can no longer watch many videos without an account. Furthermore, the whole thing also reinforces monopolies. Once you've verified your age on one platform, the barrier to switch…

> The only acceptable solution would be for apps and websites to simply include a recommended age. Allowing parents to configure their children’s devices to block services that require users to be older than the specified age or that do not provide an age rating. I'm afraid you'd get the cookie banner problem but way worse. Everyone that's not Meta/Google/Apple would immediately add a legal CYA "18+" age rating and s…

That's how it should be. Make the Internet 18+ by default and sites targeted at younger audiences can add a more detailed rating. Let people configure their devices however they like it.

The whole problem with the regulation we have right now is that it assumes the Internet is for kids, and everything for adults must be hidden. When we really just should declare the whole Internet as 18+ and the sites for kids should be the specially marked exceptions.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#187

I'm fundamentally opposed to age verification because it usually leads to mandatory account creation no matter how privacy friendly the age verification process itself may be. It's already extremely annoying that, for example, on YouTube, you can no longer watch many videos without an account. Furthermore, the whole thing also reinforces monopolies. Once you've verified your age on one platform, the barrier to switch…

At glance this looks reasonable but how do you enforce that kids connection always goes through the parents control?

You are just moving the verification point to another gate, it means that no anonymous connections are possible anymore to the entire Internet because we want to allow parents to control their kids.

You want to use your friends Wi-Fi? Now that requires full identification so that we know that its not some kid trying to look at stuff their parents don't allow.

Want to connect your cat toilet to the internet? Well, we will need to either cryptographically identify the device or attach its ID to your real ID because we don't want to allow kids look at stuff their parents did not allow and this might just be a proxy device for some nerdy 14 y/o.

Want to use your old PC? Sorry that's not possible, now all devices that connect to the internet require biometric identification because we can't tell if this is an adult or just some kid using a legacy device to look at stuff their parents don't allow.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#188
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There should be a law that forces social media companies to use a different algorithm for anyone under a certain age and be required to disclose it to the public. Possibly different algorithm depending on age group. Frankly, in that case I want the kids algorithm. It is preferable for me as an adult, I do not want the intentionally harmful one either.

You can often do that via settings. But we could do with a law that makes it a crime to override a user setting that has been explicitly set, without notifying the user.

Oh but you enabled the setting "don't use infinite scroll" and we've deprecated infinite scroll so that isn't a setting anymore. While improving service for our customers we have introduced "unrolling pages" which prefetches the next page and attaches it to the end of the previous page to provide a smooth reading experience, and of course we've given that its own setting which you haven't set, and it defaults to enabled to provide the best seamless reading experience for most people.

Next we're thinking about spatial pages, an innovation which considers the app as a viewport flying over the pages laid out in a line. In consideration we have database-views which presents the unpaged tables of content in the database directly to the end user, completely bypassing outdated 'page' skeuomorphisms from the olden days of printers and books. Further out, our researchers are working on Shepherd Tone-inspired viewing, where technically legally it is paged, but it looks and feels like it isn't!

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#189

Age checks are inevitable sadly. No one would tolerate “adult” services and goods rendered directly to children without age check. The main argument is that there is an assumption this data is not stored in the real world, which is only sometimes true. Some places like airports and some concerts, shows, bars, etc. scan identification with digital readers whose data is presumably retained. One reason for this is becau…

> No one would tolerate “adult” services and goods rendered directly to children without age check I don't think it's fair to say that parents who don't care to use parental control measures already available to them have no tolerance for that.

Also, for a more substantive answer see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49108086

We could settle on a privacy-preserving idea, like physical cards with single-use codes sold in stores after showing ID, similar to alcohol. Then a few years later they would ban cash payments for those. Then require sellers/payment operators to report all transactions to a central registry. The slope has always been slippery.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#190
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big concern around age verification is that some people will be locked out because they can't prove their age. Your solution here has the same flaw, I think. If the algorithm thinks I'm underage, I'm locked out.

being locked out = less profit = firing management by shareholders it will solve by consumers, don't worry

It won't.

Do you aware how many people are locked out from access of the bank because the bank think they are too risky by some algorithm and no human review?

And people got rejected for flying because they have same name as somebody on no fly list?

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