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Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

citizens-initiative.europa.eu

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Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#251

Post by fsflover »

damienmeur wrote: post #69

Things are far more enjoyable as a teen when it s forbidden, remember the golden age of p2p! Teens who want to see porn will be able to see porns, but they will learn somethings along the way to do so This is caricatural of course, but it s just so dumb as law as enforcing age verification "anonymously" is just like a don quichotte battle at AI era

> Teens who want to see porn will be able to see porns, but they will learn somethings along the way to do so

How will teens overcome the Android SafetyNet?

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#252

Post by chownie »

flexagoon wrote: post #163
fc417fc802 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the toxic culture of the internet has happened in part because anonymity leads to lack of accountability. It is trivial to demonstrate that this is incorrect (despite sounding plausible). There's plenty of incredibly toxic behavior to be found all over facebook. Among other considerations it's worth noting that most of the usual social feedback mechanisms are missing from typical online interactions. > The…

> There's plenty of incredibly toxic behavior to be found all over facebook. But is it comparable to the amount of toxic behavior on 4chan?

There is vastly more toxic behaviour on Facebook, it's not even close.

If there's a severity to toxicity then perhaps 4chan can peak at a 9/10 whereas Facebook posts peak at a 7/10, but there's orders of magnitude more people posting on Facebook. If you pull in Facebook comment sections on news sites and consider those too, these threads where people publicly call for torture, rape and death, you realise that 4chan has an unearned bad reputation compared to the mainstream.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#253

Post by DangitBobby »

Geezus_42 wrote: post #229
DangitBobby wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing. It won't matter on age appropriate sites.

Then why make non-kid hardware unable to access it? This whole idea is ridiculous and would never work in reality.

You've mixed it up. They said make the kids' hardware only able to access kid sites, not make it so only kid hardware could access it.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#255

Post by account42 »

everdrive wrote: post #244
KPGv2 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: meatspace is awful unless you're a normie. Christ, the day I got out of my small town and into a major city university dorm room with fast Internet was the day my life opened up. I found people with my interests. Etc. "The Internet sucks. Get offline," is the battle cry of someone who likes Marvel movies and the book that Target has at the checkout line, or lives in one of about five cities in the USA.

I really do understand your sentiment, but please remember that "meatspace" is the whole world. You can hate stupid marvel movies and chain department stores all you like, but the entire world of books, hobbies, technology, etc. is available to you. I'm not joking: I'll bet that NO ONE at your local library cares that you're weird so long as you're polite and follow the rules.

The point is that the internet brings many distant people closer to you. All the exists on the internet exists in the real world (because the internet is part of the real world) but that doesn't mean you will find it anywhere near you. Others not minding you being weird is not the same as others being weird with you.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#256

Post by dormento »

LeBit wrote: post #172

I have a hard time figuring out whether most of the comments are genuine or not. Are you guys really in favor of giving governments and police corps more control and more power so that you are observed, monitored, restricted because "the internet is dead", "think of the children" and "you need to know who to sue"? You guys are joking, right? Right?

"you guys" assumes all people defending this """idea""" (i'm being far too charitable here...) are actual europeans and not a botfarm.

(Cue the twitter profile origin country flag thing).

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#257

Post by account42 »

monomial wrote: post #186
krater23 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walmart?! Do you think we had a mall?! The only thing we had to do was drinking beer and smoking weed.

I don't really understand this trope and I grew up in a tiny town. Why not start a band or make movies with your friends? Build model airplanes, explore some creeks or forests. Not to say I didn't smoke and drink as well but why should that be more likely to be one's outlet in a small town with few commercial consumer experiences?

All of that is a lot harder to do if you have to start from first principles because you have no place to look up how its done or talk to others who are already doing it.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#258

Post by everdrive »

account42 wrote: post #255
everdrive wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really do understand your sentiment, but please remember that "meatspace" is the whole world. You can hate stupid marvel movies and chain department stores all you like, but the entire world of books, hobbies, technology, etc. is available to you. I'm not joking: I'll bet that NO ONE at your local library cares that you're weird so long as you're polite and follow the rules.

The point is that the internet brings many distant people closer to you. All the exists on the internet exists in the real world (because the internet is part of the real world) but that doesn't mean you will find it anywhere near you. Others not minding you being weird is not the same as others being weird with you.

Even if we take your point that internet may be disappearing. A good way to brace yourself is to expand your scope: books, exercise, hobbies, etc. (and probably download a few romsets) will protect you.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#259

Post by account42 »

perching_aix wrote: post #98
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people say things like this, they mean the good parts of the internet, e.g. real people who are able to be honest because a pseudonym allows them to say things they would be punished by evildoers for saying if the evildoers could identify them. Taking that away doesn't get you out of the engagement-optimized ad funnel, it just makes that be the only thing left.

Having a digital ID does not obviate that (in principle), thanks to zero-knowledge schemes. To my understanding then, the issue is that the EU's implementation only has a ZK-based solution in the plans so far. But then this initiative says "No Digital ID", not "No Auto-Deanonymizable Digital ID", so...

Zero knowledge proofs are not the magic fairy dust that you claim they are. They let you prove that you have some information without disclosing that information but that doesn't become a viable Digital ID scheme without putting other things like trusted computing so you can't give the "I'm over 18" token to literally everyone.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#260

Post by mothballed »

yorwba wrote: post #222
mothballed wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, reasonable men, perhaps virtually all reasonable men, can and will become more corrupted by expansive power. The fact that they were not corrupted when they had less leverage on the populace doesn't mean they will behave differently than other historical German (/human) apparats when they have a bit more of the intoxicating liquor. >r warrant was for a different address and they left. I am sorry but th…

They didn't actually make any mistakes. The only way for them to quadruple-check was to knock on my totally featureless door and ask, which they did. There was never a threat of lethal violence, hardly a life and death matter.

>There was never a threat of lethal violence, hardly a life and death matter.

Do you suppose the state charge you with a violence linked crime if you showed up to Chancellor of Germany's private home with a battering ram and holstered weapons and started "readying your battering ram" to barge in? I realize there is the additional element that it was authorized against a different home and "just a mistake" but that is immaterial to whether the execution of a warrant involves threat of lethal violence (that is for good reason, checked by a judge).

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