Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification • Hacker News Board

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#61

Post by victorbjorklund » Tue, Jul 28, 2026, 6:35 PM UTC

jvuygbbkuurx wrote: post #8

dgellow wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t seem to oppose any of that if you read the intro > We call on the European Commission to propose legislation ensuring that digital identity and age-assurance systems used to access online services in the Union remain voluntary, privacy-preserving and non-discriminatory. Citizens must not be forced to identify themselves to access lawful online content or services unless strictly necessary, proportionate an…

It has been quite a slippery slope. Services that used to allow password auth have retired them in favour of bank detail login. I can kind of get it, since it's offloading support to the banks, but it's also annoying since the bank logins themselves are a pain to setup, maintain and use (mobile app only). It would be nice to have some good standard that is less invasive.

At least in Sweden it is because it is a pain to have both bank id and passwords because by contract it is forbidden to allow a user that previous used bankid to ever use password again.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#62

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 » Tue, Jul 28, 2026, 6:35 PM UTC

b0rtb0rt wrote: post #59

am i alone in wanting the internet to be killed? we’d all be better off if everyone wasn’t terminally online

I think the scenario posited here is the worse possible one where we are still chronically online but on a dead internet while being fully and relentless surveilled.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#63

Post by tt24 » Tue, Jul 28, 2026, 6:37 PM UTC

Bender wrote: post #21

As far as I know the only thing that influences change is money. What methods could be implemented to take money away from governments that implement with such things? All of my ideas would be very low traction but there are clever people here on HN that I am sure could come up with a few better ideas. One of my (probably dumb) ideas is: - Create a legal presence in a country that does not require being dystopian, re…

> As far as I know the only thing that influences change is money.

You are incorrect. The NIMBY movement has been extraordinarily successful despite severe opposition from moneyed interests. Bloomberg lost embarrassingly despite setting records for campaign spending. There are countless similar examples.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#64

Post by kbelder » Tue, Jul 28, 2026, 6:37 PM UTC

hnav wrote: post #36

Bender wrote: post #21

As far as I know the only thing that influences change is money. What methods could be implemented to take money away from governments that implement with such things? All of my ideas would be very low traction but there are clever people here on HN that I am sure could come up with a few better ideas. One of my (probably dumb) ideas is: - Create a legal presence in a country that does not require being dystopian, re…

They control the last mile of the Internet so it would require satellite networking run by another country to cut them out like this.

"I Remember Babylon" by Arthur C. Clarke.

Written in 1960, but very prescient.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#65

Post by AnthonyMouse » Tue, Jul 28, 2026, 6:38 PM UTC

b0rtb0rt wrote: post #59

am i alone in wanting the internet to be killed? we’d all be better off if everyone wasn’t terminally online

When people say things like this, they mean the good parts of the internet, e.g. real people who are able to be honest because a pseudonym allows them to say things they would be punished by evildoers for saying if the evildoers could identify them. Taking that away doesn't get you out of the engagement-optimized ad funnel, it just makes that be the only thing left.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#66

Post by tosti » Tue, Jul 28, 2026, 6:40 PM UTC

hnav wrote: post #51

forgetfreeman wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not. But literally any excuse that comes to hand will be deployed if it helps the tech industry continue to avoid meaningful consequences. The same handful of companies that have engineered a global surveillance suite that rivals the most tyrannical sovereign governments wildest dreams (and can trivially detect the approximate age of a user) will without a shred of irony deploy legions of paid influencers a…

But it is an assault on privacy. If "protecting kids" was the goal here they'd push for regulation that forces websites to return standardized metadata that then gets interpreted by the user agent which can be configured by the parent.

Nah, that's a perfectly fine technical solution. Powers that be don't think like that. They understand pulling someone over to check their license, so something like that will do.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#67

Post by kbelder » Tue, Jul 28, 2026, 6:41 PM UTC

seany wrote: post #9

TryingToBeNice wrote: post #2

Even for a "Citizens' Initiative", this stuff is remarkably tone-deaf. "No Digital ID" ignores the very-real need for people to prove their identity to government(-ish) entities online, and to do so in a reliable, cheap and convenient way. Sure, you do not want that ID to become mandatory for publishing or existing on the Internet in general, but that's a separate discussion: demand sufficient protection for anonymou…

I'm a parent and would rather ban age verification. So it's certainly not everyone...

Right. Care for your children includes the responsibility to keep the society they're eventually going to participate in, free and open.

Loving your children means fighting censorship, not promoting it.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#68

Post by AnthonyMouse » Tue, Jul 28, 2026, 6:42 PM UTC

tt24 wrote: post #63

Bender wrote: post #21

As far as I know the only thing that influences change is money. What methods could be implemented to take money away from governments that implement with such things? All of my ideas would be very low traction but there are clever people here on HN that I am sure could come up with a few better ideas. One of my (probably dumb) ideas is: - Create a legal presence in a country that does not require being dystopian, re…

> As far as I know the only thing that influences change is money. You are incorrect. The NIMBY movement has been extraordinarily successful despite severe opposition from moneyed interests. Bloomberg lost embarrassingly despite setting records for campaign spending. There are countless similar examples.

The NIMBY movement is moneyed interests. The owners of existing real estate zoned for high density don't want more of it because increased supply lowers prices. The people in an affluent suburb don't want affordable condos anywhere in their school district. This comes at the expense of the poor who then pay higher rents.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#69

Post by damienmeur » Tue, Jul 28, 2026, 6:44 PM UTC

Things are far more enjoyable as a teen when it s forbidden, remember the golden age of p2p!

Teens who want to see porn will be able to see porns, but they will learn somethings along the way to do so

This is caricatural of course, but it s just so dumb as law as enforcing age verification "anonymously" is just like a don quichotte battle at AI era

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#70

Post by rglover » Tue, Jul 28, 2026, 6:44 PM UTC

mothballed wrote: post #35

A few things you can legally do online without ID or age verification in the US 1) buy cigars and pipe tobacco (but not cigarettes!) 2) Buy "CBD" by the pound 3) Buy ammunition, a barrel and the rest of gun parts for a glock, except a frame/receiver that can be 3d printed in a few hours to complete it. 4) Order and have delivered wine But there are people arguing to skip all that and go to straight to ID for social m…

#1 isn't entirely true. It's a soft-gate but you are legally required to verify age on your site before completing the purchase (I run a boutique cigar brand [1]).

[1] https://philosophercigars.com