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Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

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Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#91

Post by pstuart »

SlightlyLeftPad wrote: post #59
Avicebron wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of immediately making this an us vs them with theoretical climate deniers how about we focus on talking about how to improve science communication so that the article isn't something simultaneously dense and vague enough to be easily dismissed. I'll pick on the US, because blaming India and China will incite their little public defenders to bury the thread. The Gulf of Mexico is currently downstream of the US…

I’m confused, why was parent flagged?

As the commenter, I'm assuming that my contention was "contentious". But it was true and commenters showed up to validate my assumption.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#92

Post by aaron695 »

flockonus wrote: post #36

Oxigen is ALSO, and perhaps in vast quantities produced at the bottom of the ocean, by lumps of metal that react with sea water (aka Dark Oxygen). Interestingly, there are now massive marine harvesting operations targeting that very ore. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/scientists-discove...

[dead]

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#93

Post by littlexsparkee »

parineum wrote: post #80
littlexsparkee wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of not addressing it is more distributed: at some point you can't go outside anymore since the UV index is so high, sunscreen can't block high-intensity UV-B and UV-C, plants get damaged to the point of catastrophic crop failures... you can live in denial about climate change in developed countries (for a limited time anyway) but ozone affects everyone.

I find the reverse of this argument significantly more compelling.

I get where you're coming from - our vantage point has a lot to do with that though. The average member of the public never had to sacrifice or even know about ozone, and there's so much complexity to climate science. People have a surface deep impression of what stands to be lost and they're working against a powerful propaganda machine. Virtually all extractive industry makes the problem worse, whether cattle farming, timber, energy, etc.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#94

Post by anonymousiam »

t0mpr1c3 wrote: post #86
anonymousiam wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that I referred to Mao Zedong's China and not the China of today, which has embraced a "controlled capitalism" after their flirtation with communism failed miserably (as it always does). Can you trust the USSR lifespan statistics? I wouldn't. You cite other countries, none of which are under a purely communist government, because that has never worked out for anyone other than the dictators that ruled them.

I don't think statistics are the issue, or what the exact definition of a communist is. For what it's worth, self-described communists are still in charge in all of the countries I mentioned, with the obvious exception of Soviet Russia. Let's step back for a moment. I think you should acknowledge that you have constructed a world in your head where communists do battle with capitalists, and capitalists are the good g…

I do not see it as a battle or war. I pity the poor subjects of every totalitarian regime, and at the same time I feel blessed to live where I do. No system is perfect, and most of the people of the world live in fear of their government (including many in the USA).

The USA is rich for a reason, and that reason is the freedoms that this system of government allows. The likely outcome of any US shift toward socialism or communism is the destruction of wealth. We are seeing it happen today in places like California and New York City. Both places have recently moved toward socialism and they are now less desirable places to live than they once were. By any index, the quality of live in those places is worse today than it was 10 years ago.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#95

Post by tombot »

toddmorey wrote: post #4

Have we ever as a species successfully changed our behavior on a scale needed to address something like climate change and underwater oxygen loss? What would be the closest “we’ve got to change or perish” moment we’ve successfully navigated?

We stopped using CFCs to fix the hole in the ozone layer

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#96

Post by t0mpr1c3 »

anonymousiam wrote: post #94
t0mpr1c3 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think statistics are the issue, or what the exact definition of a communist is. For what it's worth, self-described communists are still in charge in all of the countries I mentioned, with the obvious exception of Soviet Russia. Let's step back for a moment. I think you should acknowledge that you have constructed a world in your head where communists do battle with capitalists, and capitalists are the good g…

I do not see it as a battle or war. I pity the poor subjects of every totalitarian regime, and at the same time I feel blessed to live where I do. No system is perfect, and most of the people of the world live in fear of their government (including many in the USA). The USA is rich for a reason, and that reason is the freedoms that this system of government allows. The likely outcome of any US shift toward socialism…

The FRED house price index has roughly doubled in both states in the last 10 years, which does not speak to wealth destruction.

As it happens I have visited places where people actually had socialist governments, and freedom was curtailed. East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Belarus, and Vietnam.

I have also lived in West Germany and the UK, countries in which politicians like AOC and Mamdani would be considered mainstream or even centrist. This is entirely compatible with being freedom-loving democracies.

To me New York remains the city of Gordon Gecko. Silicon Valley remains the playground of venture capitalists.

But I respect your belief in whoever informed you that socialists have taken over and that millions of Americans are impoverished and oppressed.

So can you give me $3000? I am helping veterans pay for dog surgery.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#97

Post by jauntywundrkind »

rolph wrote: post #52
flockonus wrote: post #36

Oxigen is ALSO, and perhaps in vast quantities produced at the bottom of the ocean, by lumps of metal that react with sea water (aka Dark Oxygen). Interestingly, there are now massive marine harvesting operations targeting that very ore. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/scientists-discove...

it wont matter how much oxygen you try to dissolve, if the temperature is too high you wont hold enough dissolved oxygen to allow aquatic life. https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gases-solubility-water-d_...

To me the logical point was that some of the oceanic processes that release oxygen are under-thread by man's effort to pluck up those same resources.

It's true that temperature and salinity both mean less oxygen, which means these oxygenator resources might become moot for the ocean's sake, but the ocean mining work very well could threaten a vital oxygen supply for underwater areas, potentially. I think it's fair to say only that: we have no frigging clue whatsoever.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#98

Post by voakbasda »

nemomarx wrote: post #67
Loughla wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop taking public input on public infrastructure. That would go over life a lead balloon.

Good point - maybe also stop taking public input on decisions. :V I kid, but I get more sympathetic to totalitarian countries seeing how people react to some things too. it simplifies "banding together" if there's fewer decision makers I guess and I can't think of a good way to have that squared with democracy.

Totalitarianism only works well with a benevolent dictator. Unfortunately, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Due to human nature, it will never ever turn out for the best.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#99

Post by Ferret7446 »

chasing wrote: post #8
toddmorey wrote: post #4

Have we ever as a species successfully changed our behavior on a scale needed to address something like climate change and underwater oxygen loss? What would be the closest “we’ve got to change or perish” moment we’ve successfully navigated?

Ozone hole over Antarctica. It is possible for us to work together and fix these things. Edit: Moving away from leaded gas might be another example. (CFCs and leaded gas invented by the same dude, fun fact: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr . Quite a legacy...)

It's not possible for us to work together and fix it, since most of the problem is coming from China, like with most pollution in general. Unless you're proposing something like nuking China.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#100

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #99
chasing wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ozone hole over Antarctica. It is possible for us to work together and fix these things. Edit: Moving away from leaded gas might be another example. (CFCs and leaded gas invented by the same dude, fun fact: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr . Quite a legacy...)

It's not possible for us to work together and fix it, since most of the problem is coming from China, like with most pollution in general. Unless you're proposing something like nuking China.

The problem pre exists China’s development, and China’s per capita pollution production is already less than those in western developed countries, with the caveat being that China has a lot more people.

But you are right, if you want to keep the Chinese poor so they don’t pollute as much as we do, then you’ll need to nuke them because they aren’t going back.

And if you think the problem is just China, wait until India gets it act together. The only real solution we have beyond nuking all the people striving to get rich like us is to figure out how to pollute less and still have rich lifestyles, and China is putting more effort into that than all the other countries combined.

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