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The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

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Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#311

Post by Daneel_ »

jghn wrote: post #108

Technically my current iPhone is part of the upgrade program, but I paid if off years ago. Why haven't I upgraded? Because there's no mini and all they make are phablets now.

I was in the mini camp as well, but the reality is that even the mini can't be used one-handed with ease. Based on that, I switched to a pro max model and haven't looked back. If no one-handed option is available then I'll take the most useful two-handed option, even if it pains me to do so. The 4S was the last true one-handed option in my opinion.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#312

Post by jedberg »

Grombobulous wrote: post #255
gruez wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Paying a $400 payment on a 2 year iPhone will look insane as that’s the depreciated value of a 2 year old phone. Check ebay. That's around the price of a pro series iPhone 2 years old.

That's exactly what I mean. If you're the person who has leased this phone, you make all your payments and get to the end and your bill to keep the phone forever is going to seem kind of high. Obviously, that's logical. In your lease, you have only paid the price of depreciation. Just like with cars leasing is the most expensive way to own them, but I guess there's a certain buyer who doesn't want old stuff.

Except in this case you're not paying any extra. In fact it's cheaper to lease and then own an iPhone with this program because of the time value of money.

It's an interest free loan for 2/3 of the price.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#313

Post by pishpash »

Marsymars wrote: post #188
pishpash wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eBay takes a 13%+ cut, then there's shipping, so you're looking at $300 after cost of business. If you're selling a lot, sure, capture that $100 difference. If you're selling one and dealing with buyers, you'll spend at least one hour taking pictures, writing the ad copy, doing client management, going out to ship + gas to get to the post office, risk of buyer return/fraud. Say you're worth $50/hour and you're being…

Whenever I sell used good, I use ebay to set the price, but I sell locally, so there's no shipping/fees involved. Local prices around me always seem weirdly high - I sort ebay by cheapest price+shipping, match that, and that usually puts me cheaper than 90% of local listings and gets me plenty of interest. TBH I'm not clear on why anybody outside of rural areas is selling on ebay for non-niche things.

I can think of a few reasons:

1) Digital goods, so very little friction. 2) No liquidity locally so you go to the large market. 3) Selling large volume. 4) Some third party to verify payment when it's not cash.

There are more and more alternatives though.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#314

Post by aucisson_masque »

Aurornis wrote: post #88
paxys wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright, and so will have to roll it into another 2-year monthly payment, and another one after that. So the goal of the program is the same as every other similar one…

> A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright I think you're looking at this too much from the perspective of someone who wants to own the phone, not as someone who wants to consider a lease. Leases are not a new invention. A lot of people, including very financially savvy and well off people, choose to lease rather than buy depending on the circumstances. It…

> It preserves optionality. If you get to the end of the lease period and there’s a new iPhone you want or the battery isn’t holding up, you can choose not to buy it. You don’t have to deal with selling it or trading in.

If you don't buy it at the end of the 24 month, you've been paying for a very costly lease.

2/3 of the price for a 24 month lease whereas iphones are updated for 7, 8 years ? And the resell value is very good.

Especially financially, it would make zéro sense.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#315

Post by pishpash »

xp84 wrote: post #201
pishpash wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They won't throw it into the shredder. They'll capture the residual by wholesaling it second-hand, same as with trade-in's.

They already do shred as many as they can (as my link documented) because used iPhones merely existing compete with Apple's offerings. Think of it from Apple's perspective: You sell a phone for $1,100 and get a 37%[1] margin on it, so that's a $407 profit margin, and a $693 cost to make it. That phone gets Apple $768 in lease payments according to their site. Then they take the phone back from the user at 2 years old…

Conversion is different at $1100 vs. $400 so it's not a straight 1:1 $167 vs $70; the beancounters will weight by the likelihood of getting the amount in the first place. You also have to consider the long-term value of converting, e.g. the being in the Apple ecosystem vs. going to Android if they don't convert. Finally, the cannibalization argument is stronger if the alternative is a new low-tier phone like SE or some special pricing for third-world markets. That's not selling at $1100, it'll be much closer to residual on the used phone. It's hard for me to believe the market pricing is off by so much that something that destroys value in the system like shredding working phones is a net economic gain even for Apple.

Note that in your earlier link they are shredding non-working phones that need repair, so those residual values are closer to scrap value. That's different.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#316

Post by pishpash »

amazingamazing wrote: post #228
pishpash wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First-party MSRP at that. What's a few % free loan discount in comparison to almost any other retail pricing out there that is periodically 10-15% off.

Where can you consistently get 10-15% off apple products?

Like every holiday sale? Costco and Amazon discount Apple products all the time, and of course there is EPP and student pricing.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#317

Post by aucisson_masque »

socalgal2 wrote: post #61

I'm not sure I understand all the hate in this thread. I had a friend who bought a new Mac every year, selling his old Mac. His calculation was that it was about the same price as keeping one Mac and upgrading every 5 years. I'd consider leasing a Mac through this program. I priced one out, with the options I chose it's $8149, lease for $177 (6372 for 3yrs, 8496 for 4yrs). Yes, at the end of those 3 years I don't hav…

I bet you'd have sell it for much more than 1777 at the end of the 3 years. As long as you don't break, you'd find a buyer in less than a day at this price, this is insanely good.

Usually you'd find people asking for 4 to 6k$

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#318

Post by kube-system »

darrenf wrote: post #83
paxys wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that we need to use the financing models of cars for basic consumer electronics is the dystopian part.

Then I guess we’ve been in the dystopia for almost a century now. When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s we leased our TV and VCR. It was hugely common in the UK, the company was on many high streets and literally called Radio Rentals, founded 1930: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Rentals > Radio Rentals was the largest television rental group in the UK and claimed that at its peak it had more than two million custo…

Y’all forget about the history of telephones?!

Until the 1980s almost all telephones in the US were rented from the phone company.

Renting isn’t some strange uncharted territory — owning a phone is the new concept.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#319

Post by [deleted] »

Aurornis wrote: post #88
paxys wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright, and so will have to roll it into another 2-year monthly payment, and another one after that. So the goal of the program is the same as every other similar one…

> A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright I think you're looking at this too much from the perspective of someone who wants to own the phone, not as someone who wants to consider a lease. Leases are not a new invention. A lot of people, including very financially savvy and well off people, choose to lease rather than buy depending on the circumstances. It…

[deleted]

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#320

Post by bradleybuda »

drdexebtjl wrote: post #289
lotsofpulp wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People must really like the dopamine rush of feeling outraged. Giving people the option to not buy insurance is not evil. It's just a seller giving a buyer options at different price points.

Giving people options that will in practice put them into spiraling debt slavery is objectively evil.

Given that the median household income in the US is $83k, I don’t think that losing $1k on a busted phone is likely to put many into “spiraling debt slavery”
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