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The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

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Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#121

Post by pishpash »

mmooss wrote: post #35

Are the prices competitive with the used market? Just one datapoint: I know someone who tried to trade in a laptop; Apple offered ~$200, eBayers were buying for ~$400.

eBay takes a 13%+ cut, then there's shipping, so you're looking at $300 after cost of business. If you're selling a lot, sure, capture that $100 difference. If you're selling one and dealing with buyers, you'll spend at least one hour taking pictures, writing the ad copy, doing client management, going out to ship + gas to get to the post office, risk of buyer return/fraud. Say you're worth $50/hour and you're being very efficient and do all that in one hour, you may end up with a net economic gain of $40-50 after all that. Is it worth it?

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#122

Post by luisln »

thewebguyd wrote: post #42
r0fl wrote: post #18

Leasing isn’t “I can’t afford to buy it.” It’s about capital allocation. Why would I tie up $1,200 upfront in a device that’s going to be obsolete in a couple of years when I can spread the cost over time, preserve cash flow, and (if it’s a legitimate business expense) deduct the lease payments? Keeping $1,200 in my business earning a return is often worth more than prepaying for a depreciating asset. People happily…

Yeah everyone's naysaying this but it seems like a no brainer? There's no interest, no fees. The total lease price (if you buy out at the end) is the same as the retail price. There's no downside to it at all. If you are someone who upgrades annually, you're now paying ~$599 split over 12 payments vs. ~$1199 up front and either trading in or trying to sell your last gen privately. It works out to about even on a trad…

When you return the device, it needs to be in mint condition. You now have a credit obligation with Klarna, whereas on the pervious system, there was also 0% financing but it was bundled AppleCare+.

I don't think anyone will ever excercise the buyout option since the phone will never be worth more than the buyout price. And like you're saying, this program does not make sense unless you are upgrading every single year.

I mean in any case, every option looks defensible once you've accepted the premise that you need a new phone every 12 months. Any minute differences in costs are just rounding errors. Like I really don't think someone upgrading every year is going to have a significantly different retirement income because they saved $1200 every year by not buying the iphone outright. It's really just a convenience thing, not a financial decision.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#123

Post by giancarlostoro »

nerdjon wrote: post #23

The math for the new program is kinda perplexing, my guess is that they are hoping that most people just will send in the device and upgrade. If I am reading the FAQ here properly: https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade . > If you decide to buy the device, the purchase option fee is the list price minus any lease payments you’ve made minus any remaining discounts or trade-in credit. (excluding tax and any damage fe…

> my guess is that they are hoping that most people just will send in the device and upgrade.

That's precisely why they set it up this way, honestly leasing always made more sense for businesses. I prefer to keep my phones, peace of mind knowing, if I lose something that somehow did not make it to the backups, I can just turn on my old phone and find it.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#124

Post by fckgw »

Aurornis wrote: post #97
paxys wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A refurbished iPhone 15 Pro is selling for $929 on their website right now. Trade in price for that exact model is $410. So yes they are very interested in that old phone.

I take it you’ve never purchased an Apple refurbished product? They’re in excellent condition. They do not look like 2-year used and abused trade ins. If trade-ins are going back to the refurb inventory (which I don’t know if they do) then it’s only after extensive actual refurbishment and new parts. They’re not putting it back into a box, listing it for sale, and pocketing the difference.

They have the ability to tear the whole thing down to guts and screws. They absolutely do replace the case, glass and battery and sell as refurbished. They already do complete case swaps on their Macs.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#125

Post by Aurornis »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #111
Aurornis wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it you’ve never purchased an Apple refurbished product? They’re in excellent condition. They do not look like 2-year used and abused trade ins. If trade-ins are going back to the refurb inventory (which I don’t know if they do) then it’s only after extensive actual refurbishment and new parts. They’re not putting it back into a box, listing it for sale, and pocketing the difference.

It's still obviously making them money. How much, who's to say, likely highly variable depending on the condition of the phone. But if it didn't make them money they wouldn't do it, they're not a charity. I'd imagine even a phone they can't fix to sell still has some value, even as scrap to them especially as the costs of every damn material that goes into any electronic device continue to soar. And that all being sa…

> It's still obviously making them money.

They’re obviously making money on the whole purchase and program because they’re a business, not a charity.

The assumption that they’re making significantly more money on this than direct sales may or may not hold. It could be that they’re targeting a similar level of end-to-end profit as direct sales but using this to expand their market by providing more purchasing options.

Some people get angry at the prospect of a company making money, but they’re not charities. Everyone should do the math and decide which purchase options work for them. What works for you may not be appropriate to force on to the rest of the population.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#126

Post by giancarlostoro »

paxys wrote: post #65
nerdjon wrote: post #23

The math for the new program is kinda perplexing, my guess is that they are hoping that most people just will send in the device and upgrade. If I am reading the FAQ here properly: https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade . > If you decide to buy the device, the purchase option fee is the list price minus any lease payments you’ve made minus any remaining discounts or trade-in credit. (excluding tax and any damage fe…

> iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright, and so will have to roll it into another 2-year monthly payment, and another one after that. So the goal of the program is the same as every other similar one…

Let's suppose that Apple somehow doesn't release any new iPhones during this leasing window, what happens then? Does Apple ship you back a new phone that's essentially the same model? I know this is unlikely, but I am curious.

The other thing to consider, that while Apple might sell you the phone for $400 or whatever, they might re-sell it as refurbished for $700.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#127

Post by thisislife2 »

Grombobulous wrote: post #92
enahs-sf wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like there’s a psychological component here for you to feel obliged to upgrade at the end of the 2 or 3 year term. Who wants to pay $1k for a 3 year old MacBook? Trading in/up will feel natural. It does feel less and less like you own the hardware though.

This is exactly what’s going on here. You literally don’t own the hardware, it’s a lease. That said, you can purchase with financing with an Apple Card, or with numerous other financing options like carrier financing. However, leasing allows the purchase prices of phones to continue climbing while still presenting a palatable monthly payment. I think what’s going to happen with this is a lot of people will be lured i…

Or, they can still pay the $400 and try to resell it for higher. And then buy a cheaper Android when they finally realise being in debt for making a fashion statement is stupid.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#128

Post by smallmancontrov »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #111
Aurornis wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it you’ve never purchased an Apple refurbished product? They’re in excellent condition. They do not look like 2-year used and abused trade ins. If trade-ins are going back to the refurb inventory (which I don’t know if they do) then it’s only after extensive actual refurbishment and new parts. They’re not putting it back into a box, listing it for sale, and pocketing the difference.

It's still obviously making them money. How much, who's to say, likely highly variable depending on the condition of the phone. But if it didn't make them money they wouldn't do it, they're not a charity. I'd imagine even a phone they can't fix to sell still has some value, even as scrap to them especially as the costs of every damn material that goes into any electronic device continue to soar. And that all being sa…

Since the days of Samuel Vimes, durable goods have undergone spectacular deflation and health care, housing, and education have undergone spectacular inflation.

One month of median US rent buys three 55" TVs.

The math has changed.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#129

Post by JBAnderson5 »

jghn wrote: post #108

Technically my current iPhone is part of the upgrade program, but I paid if off years ago. Why haven't I upgraded? Because there's no mini and all they make are phablets now.

Will they ever come out with a new mini? If they don’t, is it possible to buy a new 13 mini anymore? Or just replace the battery?

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#130

Post by tw600040 »

paxys wrote: post #65
nerdjon wrote: post #23

The math for the new program is kinda perplexing, my guess is that they are hoping that most people just will send in the device and upgrade. If I am reading the FAQ here properly: https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade . > If you decide to buy the device, the purchase option fee is the list price minus any lease payments you’ve made minus any remaining discounts or trade-in credit. (excluding tax and any damage fe…

> iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright, and so will have to roll it into another 2-year monthly payment, and another one after that. So the goal of the program is the same as every other similar one…

Someone who won't have that $433 has no business even thinking about a 1200$ phone in the first place
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