Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 411 posts

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#211

Post by paxys »

tshaddox wrote: post #184
paxys wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright, and so will have to roll it into another 2-year monthly payment, and another one after that. So the goal of the program is the same as every other similar one…

Isn't the 0% APR financing essentially just a sales expense? Even if people generally don't immediately roll into another 2-year agreement, the main reason zero-interest financing works for the sellers is simply that it makes it easier for people to spend money on expensive high-margin stuff. Multi-year zero-interest loans are also commonplace in high-price, high-margin specialty retail: think La-Z-Boy, Sleep Number,…

They also charge heavy interest and fees to people who miss payments, but in this case that will be captured by Klarna.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#213

Post by lotsofpulp »

drdexebtjl wrote: post #176
Someone wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and no longer includes AppleCare+ by default. On the one hand that gives users an option. On the other hand, that is a way to hide a price increase. Also, those doing this are almost obliged to take AppleCare, as ( https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade ): “What do I do if my device gets lost or is stolen? If you have AppleCare+ Theft and Loss for your iPhone, iPad, or Apple Watch, you can file a claim at mysuppo…

That’s evil. So if the target demographic, the person that does not have money to buy an iPhone outright, is mugged, they need to essentially buy the iPhone outright or they start racking up interest and fees. (I don’t care if they say the target demographic is “people who upgrade every 2 years” instead. If that were really the case, you don’t need financing, just a buy-back program)

People must really like the dopamine rush of feeling outraged.

Giving people the option to not buy insurance is not evil. It's just a seller giving a buyer options at different price points.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#214

Post by nozzlegear »

user00005 wrote: post #139

Well, Apple did just hit a 5 trillion market cap with a PE ratio of 41. With hardware prices increasing, selling financially challenged people on 'cheap' monthly payments seem like one way to keep the stock price pumped at these levels. I guess they are one of the good trillion corporations though? https://finance.yahoo.com/technology/article/apple-tops-5-tr...

> With hardware prices increasing, selling financially challenged people on 'cheap' monthly payments seem like one way to keep the stock price pumped at these levels.

I feel like some people are ignoring the fact that "financially challenged people" have always been paying monthly payments for their phones via their carrier's lease programs, which are very popular and have been a thing since the first iPhone.

People need phones, this is a good program.

> I guess they are one of the good trillion corporations though?

This but unironically

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#215

Post by horsawlarway »

0x457 wrote: post #180
Mistletoe wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on earth are we leasing phones now???

Well, lets do math: - from this thread: iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it If you upgrade your phone every 1-2 years then what you pay for the phone is something like "full cost - optimistic trade-in value". I see no reason not to do if you know you going to upgrade.

I don't understand this mindset. I get that people who are going to upgrade to the latest flagship phone every 18-24 months will probably do better with this, but realistically... those people are fucking insanely financially irresponsible (and if you can afford it - no shade, I guess, its your money - lord knows I burn lots of cash on hobby projects of my own, although I tend to buy things that are actually projects, and not just glitz...)

But there's just nothing to run on phones built in the last 5+ years that actually puts the hardware through its paces (in the phone form factor, laptops and desktops I'd be lot more forgiving on). The cameras aren't really getting better. The battery capacities seem to be mostly "the same". There's just no practical "reason" to justify the expense at this point (and I'll fully acknowledge this wasn't always the case - there was a period there in the early 2010s where phones were getting better rapidly and upgrading was a big deal).

They're basically buying an expensive piece of jewelry that they'll throw away in 24 months. Like... just buy a cheaper model and get some real jewelry. At least that could be passed down at some point instead of becoming e-waste.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#216

Post by ArchOversight »

drdexebtjl wrote: post #176
Someone wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and no longer includes AppleCare+ by default. On the one hand that gives users an option. On the other hand, that is a way to hide a price increase. Also, those doing this are almost obliged to take AppleCare, as ( https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade ): “What do I do if my device gets lost or is stolen? If you have AppleCare+ Theft and Loss for your iPhone, iPad, or Apple Watch, you can file a claim at mysuppo…

That’s evil. So if the target demographic, the person that does not have money to buy an iPhone outright, is mugged, they need to essentially buy the iPhone outright or they start racking up interest and fees. (I don’t care if they say the target demographic is “people who upgrade every 2 years” instead. If that were really the case, you don’t need financing, just a buy-back program)

This is the same as when you get a phone through a mobile carrier. T-Mobile doesn't care that I got mugged, they want their money.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#217

Post by ct0 »

drdexebtjl wrote: post #176
Someone wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and no longer includes AppleCare+ by default. On the one hand that gives users an option. On the other hand, that is a way to hide a price increase. Also, those doing this are almost obliged to take AppleCare, as ( https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade ): “What do I do if my device gets lost or is stolen? If you have AppleCare+ Theft and Loss for your iPhone, iPad, or Apple Watch, you can file a claim at mysuppo…

That’s evil. So if the target demographic, the person that does not have money to buy an iPhone outright, is mugged, they need to essentially buy the iPhone outright or they start racking up interest and fees. (I don’t care if they say the target demographic is “people who upgrade every 2 years” instead. If that were really the case, you don’t need financing, just a buy-back program)

Fairly certain there is no forgiveness with lease terms. Also, Im surprised that Apple Care is not a requirement, but it seem more like a decision to put the risk on the lender rather than Apple in the case of loss. I would expect a majority of people to buy the apple care for a few dollars more per month.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#218

Post by xp84 »

js2 wrote: post #53
xp84 wrote: post #16

Seems like a good place to also mourn the canonical best iPhone financing method - the blissfully simple Apple Card payment plan. They got rid of it[1] (except if you're engaging in the postpaid carrier contract foolishness) in 2023, which coincidentally was the last time I felt the need to get a new iPhone. I know a lot of people use postpaid, but I can't understand why. I'd challenge anyone to justify that decision…

I'm on Verizon postpaid, 4 lines on Unlimited Plus for $31/line. That's hard to beat pre-paid for comparable service. Yes, I have to threaten to leave Verizon once a year to get them to add a bunch of customer loyalty discounts, but that's not less work than switching pre-paid carriers to chase deals. I subscribe to /r/NoContract/ so I have a pretty good idea what's out there. Visible+ is a comparable pre-paid plan,…

> 4 lines on Unlimited Plus for $31/line.

Important: Does this include taxes and the many "regulatory offset fees" or whatever they call them? My numbers do include everything.

Looks like that plan[1] offers 30GB of mobile hotspot. I get 50GB.

The Unlimited Plus throttles video by default to either 480p, unless you're in a UWB (mmWave?) tower you get 720p. You can get "up to 720p" even on "plain" 5G by adjusting a setting though. My plan does the same default as well, but when I adjust a setting, I get unthrottled video.

You get 50% off a data plan for a watch, which looks like is a $10 plan? So $5 add-on for a watch. My plan includes a watch for free.

It doesn't look like you get international roaming with Unlimited Plus. I get 20GB of roaming in 125 countries in my plan. I've used it, it works great.

And to get the rate you're talking about, you have to buy 4 lines. No problem for you, but it's notable that singletons pay $80 (with autopay) for that plan. Mine is $32.50 since I pay annually (actually it was less because I paid during a sale, but I don't want to make claims that aren't easily available anytime). I don't have to ever call and threaten them to stay at $32.50 because that's the full price.

Anyway, that's US Mobile as you may have guessed - and that's their best, Unlimited Premium plan.

Oh, I also pay an extra $10 a month to add a second eSim on a different network, a feature they offer. It uses your same allowances (for me, hotspot is the only thing that's metered anyway) but means that I can hop between AT&T and Verizon towers at will. You can also just port your main line to a different network at any time, if you just decide that you want to. They support all three US networks.

[1] https://www.verizon.com/support/unlimited-plus-faqs/

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#219

Post by macintux »

horsawlarway wrote: post #215
0x457 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, lets do math: - from this thread: iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it If you upgrade your phone every 1-2 years then what you pay for the phone is something like "full cost - optimistic trade-in value". I see no reason not to do if you know you going to upgrade.

I don't understand this mindset. I get that people who are going to upgrade to the latest flagship phone every 18-24 months will probably do better with this, but realistically... those people are fucking insanely financially irresponsible (and if you can afford it - no shade, I guess, its your money - lord knows I burn lots of cash on hobby projects of my own, although I tend to buy things that are actually projects…

For me, the primary value of my phone is the camera, and the telephoto on the iPhone Pro Max models has gotten significantly better in the 2.5 years since mine was released.

Were it not for the camera, I could have stopped upgrading 10 years ago.

My point is, not everyone values the same things you do. The new Siri AI only runs on 15 Pro and higher, I think. New features do arrive in newer phones.

Re: The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

#220

Post by macintux »

closetohome wrote: post #191
0x457 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, lets do math: - from this thread: iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it If you upgrade your phone every 1-2 years then what you pay for the phone is something like "full cost - optimistic trade-in value". I see no reason not to do if you know you going to upgrade.

This math is what lead me to the iUp program in the first place. It's effectively a guaranteed 50% trade-in, which came out to about $200-300 in actual money that I was theoretically sacrificing in exchange for not having to worry about the cosmetic condition of the phone or weirdos on ebay. And it came with AppleCare+ with Theft and Loss. I stopped using a case. I lived free.

I’ll never stop using a case. Too clumsy, too careless. 2-3 days without my phone would be manageable but why?
Post reply on HN