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Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

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Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#71

Post by defrost »

jibal wrote: post #38
budsniffer952 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, sure. Meanwhile pollutants and CO2 per person have been on a downward trend for decades. But two years of this admin has ruined in all? There is no hope unless we decide to do things globally. And until you are willing to "compel" countries who don't play along, it's not happening. So, no, shaming people or telling them to be afraid will not help.

[flagged]

Block whomever you wish for whatever reason you like by all means.

Please do the forum the courtesy of not shallowly calling out others and sharing your tedious detailing.

Sent from my noPhone

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#72

Post by harimau777 »

glitchc wrote: post #46
epistasis wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the banng of HFCs is a pretty good example of collective action. Also, it's important to realize that climate change, as we best understand it right now, is not a "or perish" type of situation. RCP8.5 has now been soundly eliminated from the set of potential climate trajectories, so what we're left with is a question of 1) how much mass migration will be forced upon the world, with concomitant wars and s…

No matter how poor you think the US is, the average person in the rest of the world is indeed poorer.

The average person in the rest of the world lives in a dramatically different social structure than Western late stage capitalism. In effect the social contract of capitalism was "give up the culture, social institutions, etc. that make for a stable collectivist society and in exchange enjoy the benefits of consumerism." I don't think it is surprising that people are angry when the Capital class decides that they don't get the consumerism either.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#73

Post by harimau777 »

anonymousiam wrote: post #56
glitchc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter how poor you think the US is, the average person in the rest of the world is indeed poorer.

True, but most people don't think about why that is the case. They'll blame slavery (abolished over 160 years ago), or the "exploitation" by capitalists (that produce wealth for all). Some may claim that the US has more natural resources, but The US is rich because of the freedoms and rights that our citizens have. Look at the poverty of the Soviet Union or Mao's China, or in Cuba today. I cannot for the life of me u…

Socialism is increasingly popular because people are seeing that capitalism makes them LESS free. People don't have the freedom to own a home, the freedom to get medical care, the freedom to travel, etc. When they see that many of those things (particularly medical care) are available in socialist (relative to the US) countries, it's no surprise that they abandon capitalism.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#75

Post by harimau777 »

metalman wrote: post #49
toddmorey wrote: post #4

Have we ever as a species successfully changed our behavior on a scale needed to address something like climate change and underwater oxygen loss? What would be the closest “we’ve got to change or perish” moment we’ve successfully navigated?

"We"? if by "we" you mean Chinese, then yes, as THEY have maintained a cultural structure and language far longer than we have, and adapting themselves and there environment to do that was something they have been doing successfully for millenia,China still venerates the first engineer "Gun"assigned to control the flooding on the yallu river 3300 years ago, and it is then no surprise that they are building solar, win…

They've also gone through 13 major dynasties and about 2 societal collapses. That of course doesn't undo China's amazing cultural, technological, and social advances and achievements over the millenia, but it does suggest that their history is more nuanced.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#76

Post by m4rtink »

toddmorey wrote: post #4

Have we ever as a species successfully changed our behavior on a scale needed to address something like climate change and underwater oxygen loss? What would be the closest “we’ve got to change or perish” moment we’ve successfully navigated?

DNS, IP adresses and Emoji of course, all global efforts, with extinction level risks.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#77

Post by m4rtink »

nemomarx wrote: post #67
Loughla wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop taking public input on public infrastructure. That would go over life a lead balloon.

Good point - maybe also stop taking public input on decisions. :V I kid, but I get more sympathetic to totalitarian countries seeing how people react to some things too. it simplifies "banding together" if there's fewer decision makers I guess and I can't think of a good way to have that squared with democracy.

You also get no feedback from people, massive corruption and many useless megaprojects end up being built at the cost of everything else (because everyoneis too afraid to point out its nonsense & regime adjacent thugs will then make it 5x as expensive and pocket the extra money).

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#79

Post by rolph »

gerdesj wrote: post #64
rolph wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it wont matter how much oxygen you try to dissolve, if the temperature is too high you wont hold enough dissolved oxygen to allow aquatic life. https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gases-solubility-water-d_...

Now look up the temperatures within the water column. I don't see any notes about pressure. Temperature is one axis ... Your charts show several "green house gases" and with some squinting and handwaving could be used to "prove" that the seas are mopping up those gases and saving the planet. I used to keep tropical fish and they somehow managed to survive in water temperatures way higher than the open seas. In an aqu…

solubility of gases in water is a general phenomenon, yes water is solvent for a lot of things, and that exacerbates the situation, more gases, mean partial solubility rather than the whole solubility, so that would mean even less oxygen dissolved in a volume of water.

you need to update your model of physical chemistry, there are a number of issues to your detriment.

as temperature increases, gas solubility decreases across the board, solvent caging of water is inhibited at higher temperatures.

the issue is not only oxygen. water must be solvent to ammonia, and CO2 to an extent compatible with physiology.

it wont matter how much O2 is dissolved if you cant excrete your waste products.

CO2 dissolved in water at quantity will convert partially to carbonic acid, lowering the pH of the water, and dissolving Ca++ Carbonate this means its harder to make a shell, and what shell you have is dissolving at an increased rate.

Re: Underwater oxygen loss threatens earth's stability, researchers warn

#80

Post by parineum »

littlexsparkee wrote: post #24
hinoki wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We did a reasonable job with ozone depletion, but that has much lower costs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion

The cost of not addressing it is more distributed: at some point you can't go outside anymore since the UV index is so high, sunscreen can't block high-intensity UV-B and UV-C, plants get damaged to the point of catastrophic crop failures... you can live in denial about climate change in developed countries (for a limited time anyway) but ozone affects everyone.

I find the reverse of this argument significantly more compelling.
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