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French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

france24.com

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Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#351

Post by throw0101d »

Arodex wrote: post #348
throw0101d wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, pine is flammable. So what? Should we replace it with wood that doesn't burn? Different trees react differently to fire. The forest fires of (e.g.) the American west are different than the forest fires in Canada: > The forest-mismanagement argument was, in fairness, based on real evidence from some regions. In the frequent-fire dry forests of the western US that are dominated by ponderosa pine and mixed conife…

And you think the peatlands were natural? In France, in 1857, a stone's throw from Bordeaux? It was already a huge product of human activity: the forest there was cut for firewood, great colds killed the rest in the XVIIe century and grazing sheeps kept it treeless. Pine was chosen because it is endemic and one of the few species able to grow on such poor soils, washed out by rain and sea salt. You have to love all t…

> And you think the peatlands were natural? In France, in 1857, a stone's throw from Bordeaux?

If it is indeed a question between "artificially forest" or "artificially peat", then pick what's most useful to humans at the moment: how much lumber is needed? Is resin tapping still important? How much more utility is that compared to having to deal with wildfires that seem to regularly rip through the area over the decades:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1949_Landes_forest_fire

Does 100% of what is now forest 'have' to stay that way? Or 80%? 50?

> You have to love all the people on this website giving advice on Europeans and Canadians on forest management

1. I am Canadian.

2. The French themselves have considered doing something else besides the forest that is currently there:

* https://www.lemonde.fr/en/opinion/article/2022/08/16/mps-sho...

* https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02648...

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#352

Post by pvaldes »

Lets have a resume:

Biggest wildfire in the history of Spain: 2026

Biggest wildfire in the modern history of Norway: 2026

Biggest wildfire in Austria: 2026

Biggest wildfire in Germany: 2025

Biggest wildfire in Denmark: 2025

Biggest wildfire in UK: 2025

Biggest wildfire in Montenegro: 2025

Biggest wildfire in Serbia: 2025

Biggest wildfire in Albania: 2025

Biggest wildfire in Bulgaria: 2025

Biggest wildfire in Malta: 2025

Biggest wildfire in Ukraine: 2024

Biggest wildfire in USA: 2024

Biggest wildfire in Greece: 2023

Biggest wildfire in Switzerland: 2023

Biggest wildfire in Czechia: 2022

Biggest wildfire in Slovenia: 2022

Biggest wildfire in Italy: 2021

Biggest wildfire in Turkey: 2021

Biggest wildfire in Poland: 2020

Biggest wildfire in Ireland: 2020

Plus some special honorary mentions for some of the largest wildfires in:

- France: 2026

- Lithuania: 2026,

- Estonia: 2026.

- Cyprus: 2025

Almost every European country and USA suffered the biggest wildfires in their whole history in the same period as the Ukraine war. France still can sing bingo. Almost there.

Hungary on the other hand, suffered their biggest wildfire in 2012. One hurrah for Hungary. And Croatia in 2017, congratulations. I wonder what is different to the other countries here. They must clean their forests really good.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#353

Post by fleroviumna »

wosk wrote: post #180

Le Monde, very reputed French newspaper (NYtimes equivalent for France perhaps) says that it’s not the first time this cloud is seen in France [1]: (translation mine) > “What is happening right now is extremely, extremely unusual. Seeing a cloud this massive and reaching such an altitude above a wildfire is exceptionally rare,” the researcher explains. “During the Pedrógão fire [which claimed around 60 lives in Portu…

[dead]

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#354

Post by moritzwarhier »

Galanwe wrote: post #318
Loquebantur wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is indicative of escalating climate catastrophe is indeed the intensity and frequency of those firestorms, not any lack of precedent for a cloud shape. But the really salient observation is how people individually and their social system as a whole react (or not). Debating the shapes of clouds points to a fundamental dysfunctional disconnect on multiple levels.

> What is indicative of escalating climate catastrophe is indeed the intensity and frequency of those firestorms I don't think we have the data that proves this theory (which of course doesn't mean that the theory is wrong), because the vast majority of these fires are man-made, not natural disasters. This year's Fontainebleau wildfires were caused by 1) a deranged person ligthning bushes and drenching them with fuel…

Ah, would the world not be full of so many simple-minded people, we'd all be free!

[edited out things that were badly worded]

Wildfires being incited by arsonists don't contradict climate effects, neither would an increase in arson.

But it's important to point out arson instead of ignoring it, even more so when the situation is dangerous. Agreed.

It's just also important to do research on the environment that sustains our lives, no matter how many know-it-alls tell you that the sweet fountain of fossil fuels will enlighten us forever, no matter how wasteful and corrupt we are in distributing its yield.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#355

Post by watwut »

baxtr wrote: post #248
pepperoni_pizza wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is centrists and deniers who are stopping us in implementing effective measures that would fight for human lives.

You will not convince them by saying things over and over again. It’s not like they haven’t heard the facts. It might have even have the opposite effect, increasing their unwillingness to believe it’s more than just a hoax. Ask yourself: when was the last time vigorous repetition of a position has convinced you personally? You will convince them by showing them how to do it properly. Show them the way and they might…

Vigorous repetition of position when you are facing opposition that vigorously repeats their position ... is the only option.

What you suggest leads to a word where only deniers tall, thus only their side is heard and thus they win. And yes, I was convinced by people I heard talking. I was never convinced by people who said nothing.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#356

Post by belorn »

halper wrote: post #335
belorn wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a national election in Sweden this year. Which parties or blocks are against construction of thermal power plants, and which are against it? Thermal power plants are primarily fueled by oil or natural gas. Party platforms are public and posted on their websites. A few years ago EU voted to define two technologies as green. One was natural gas, and the other was nuclear. Which parties voted for natural gas, a…

For me, it has degraded to the point where I simply presume that no significant promises are going to be kept after the election anyway. The respective parties will promise what they think they need to get the votes, and will then target whatever is relevant for the ever-evolving social-media driven zeitgeist. "A completely fossil-free energy system" ("Ett helt fossilfritt energisystem" (1)) yesteryear and now lower…

Fuel prices is one of those things where people will complain about Iran war driving prices up, and then in the next sentence complain that low fuel taxes will encourage consumption. The reduction in taxes has basically removed half of the price on gasoline, but with the increase in global market price this has only resulted in a minor price reduction in total. For diesel the price is still above that of last year.

It will be interesting to see if researchers will find any significant behavioral change from having half the fuel prices compared to nearby countries. Personally I doubt it will be a significant statistical difference, but it is a perfect time to get some real data if people treat fuel as a necessity and pay what the market demands, or if its a luxury product where consumption goes up and down based on price.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#357

Post by watwut »

baxtr wrote: post #324
Loquebantur wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're very wrong. The propaganda practice of incessant repetition being effective even in face of blatantly obvious contradicting facts is well established. The reason climate catastrophe deniers incessantly repeat their nonsense isn't because they like to hear themselves talk, it's because it works. The majority of people are never convinced by rational arguments or facts, they act solely on subjectively perceived…

If I repeat here a thousand times that you’re wrong and we should focus on the effects of climate change and not the deniers will you believe me then?

Then focus on effects of climate rather then trying to make the rest of us shut up.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#358

Post by zahlman »

ColdStream wrote: post #94
strken wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is there to discuss? Outlier weather events are growing more common and the hot summer obviously played a role here. Even climate change denial has moved from denying the fact to denying that we can fix anything, for either economic or technical reasons.

[flagged]

Where in the thread are you seeing this?

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#359

Post by zahlman »

chewbacha wrote: post #80
donohoe wrote: post #71

67 comments. One mention of “climate crisis” (appropriate), 3 of “climate credits”. No one here is really discussing “climate change”. Is it denial, or just that we’ve accepted the obvious?

Must… Build… More… Datacenters… But seriously, hacker news routinely denies the obvious when it comes to climate crisis.

Where are you seeing such denial?

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#360

Post by zahlman »

rectang wrote: post #118
senderista wrote: post #85

I will be surprised if the climate crisis doesn’t eventually escalate to the point where basically everyone agrees that geoengineering of some kind is worth the risk.

Geoengineering proposals spring from the same impulse as climate denial — anything to avoid consequences for those contributing to the crisis.

Is this about some kind of sense of "justice", or is it about solving the problem?
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