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Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

politico.com

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Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#781

Post by chii »

pbgcp2026 wrote: post #706
blackqueeriroh wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody is making this argument because this is a normal thing that companies do. It's so common it is named in business strategy: "commoditize your complements." It is common in business strategy, far less so in nation-state governance. The reason you, me, and so many people in the United States still have a far better quality of life and level of freedom than most people in China is because it’s bad to run a count…

"you, me, and so many people in the United States still have a far better quality of life and level of freedom" LOL - are you sure about this?

The words of george orwell has never been so accurate.

"War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength"

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#782

Post by chii »

thesmtsolver2 wrote: post #739
treyd wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But thats also an admittance that the American labs can’t compete on merit anymore This is exactly it. Try to buy a BYD in the United States. You can't (without a complicated process) because they're so much better cars than our domestic brands that our domestic brands couldn't compete and lobbied to keep them out. > should by itself also limit the viability of the idea that all those VC billions will ever make a r…

> because they're so much better cars than our domestic brands Is that objectively true? True after factoring in harms they do to human rights and the environment? Nope. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2026/may/12/c... https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/10/human-rights-... Remember, even EU despite claiming to be morally superior to the US, heavily tariffs BYD (much more than the tariffs that…

> Is that objectively true?

objectively true. And there's zero need to factor in things like "human rights" or "environmental protection", because these are costs that have been externalized and the consumer don't pay for it (in their lifetime anyway). That's what objectively means.

Chinese cars are unavailable in the US because US manufacturers are 100% unable to compete. Japan was in the exact same position before, but because of ally status, japanese car companies (with their gov't as the proxy) managed to negotiate and have a "voluntary import restriction" in place to protect US manufacturers. This artificial restriction created a higher price for consumers than it ordinarily would have been.

The japanese car manufacturers were also able to setup shop in the US, and instead of exporting, they manufacturered directly on US soil. They're allowed to do this sole because they're an ally, and i don't expect this same to be allowed for chinese companies.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#783

Post by somenameforme »

scoofy wrote: post #769
somenameforme wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm anything but a fan of Trump, but I think these typical slurs don't really make any sense. Were Trump corrupt and pliable then he wouldn't be doing half the things he's doing. There's tremendous money and influence in opposition to things he's doing that he could easily cash in on if he wanted. By contrast there's basically no 'Let's go invade Iran' lobby outside of Israel, and even 'Israel' misstates that since i…

Trump made $1.5B off TrumpCoin. Literally a vehicle for bribery, and we know he made over a billion dollars . The hell are you talking about. There's "corruption" which is pointing fingers, and then there is "we literally have the receipts of countries paying him off (Qatar), and we have the vehicle he created to do exactly that off the record (TrumpCoin)." So don't pretend it's like "oh, everyone is corrupt." It's r…

Wiki has a decent page on what happened to his meme coin. [1] Suffice to say, he definitely didn't make billions off it, or a single billion off of it.

And the entire premise doesn't even make any sense. Say you want a vessel for bribery and as that vessel you choose a completely open and highly visible public ledger that anybody and everybody can track the flow of money through, as opposed to the basically infinite ways to discretely and anonymously transfer wealth in modern times? And then what exactly do you think Qatar wants to bribe him for? Arms shipments that were already skyrocketing under previous administrations?

And then Trump is also directly working against the interests of countries like Qatar by invading Iran, which has somewhat predictably resulted in them getting blasted by Iran which is resulting in them wasting one can only imagine how much in interceptor missiles which tend to run in the millions per pop, which they are now rebuying from the US lol.

There is a lot one can reasonably critique about Trump, but I don't understand how you don't see that being level-headed in your critique is way more reasonable than just spewing off weak and hyperbolic talking points. It makes things partisan because the only people that will agree with you are those who are also partisan, and you end up convincing nobody and effectively just perpetuate the exact system of divide-and-conquer that ensures we keep getting Trumps and Bidens.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$Trump

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#784

Post by ANarrativeApe »

So what is the mechanism that the administratuon would use to block access? I get how China could block access to Chinese LLMs, but any startup that can't or won't bypass a US imposed block on a Chinese offering was going to fail anyway.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#785

Post by arjie »

arjie wrote: post #647
ch4s3 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very zero sum view of the world that I don't think most people actually hold.

I don't think people need to hold a specific view. The experience of higher income percentiles is that the goods and services they rely on will get more expensive. Their position will be against a generic economic term, inflation, not against any individuals and awareness of other income percentiles will be limited. People at each position on the percentile curve will simply experience what they are experiencing and…

Hmm, this is tougher than I thought to tease out. You can get income decile/tercile level sentiment but the problem is getting out workers vs. retirees etc. It would make sense that fixed-income earners would experience distress if worker incomes rose so I need to pull out that set but I can't find a way to do it. But this should be a massive smoking gun and I don't see the gun smoking that much. Sentiment for high-income mostly seems to just match the S&P500 and interest rates... I think it was a good idea but it's not true.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#786

Post by hananova »

sergiotapia wrote: post #508
JKCalhoun wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm only counting 3 frontier models in the U.S.… Oh, Claude tells me Llama and Grok might count.

Grok is a terrific model and my work horse. I hope Composer 3 reaches at least this level because Grok 4.5 intelligence + composer type speed pfffff, wild times ahead.

You’re right though. It is terrific. (Btw you might want to look up what that word means.)

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#787

Post by hananova »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #747
sergiotapia wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grok is a terrific model and my work horse. I hope Composer 3 reaches at least this level because Grok 4.5 intelligence + composer type speed pfffff, wild times ahead.

You get downvoted for praising Grok because its elon company

How is saying that a model “causes terror” praise?

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#788

Post by mirekrusin »

anon373839 wrote: post #709
blacksoil wrote: post #681

They argue that the Chinese models distill US models as one of the basis of the potential ban. I think it's quite ironic considering even the US models themselves are using data out there on the internet without asking for permissions and in many cases even infringing copyrights...

The real threat is the time machine Moonshot built to distill Fable and Sol before those models were even available! And with K3 surpassing Fable by a wide margin in some domains, Moonshot apparently also have distilled models that won't be released for some time into the future.

They should codename next open model "flux capacitor".

Capability to travel in time is real issue as well as ability of open models to easily attack fable and sol - models which are completely defenseless.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#789

Post by defrost »

hananova wrote: post #786
sergiotapia wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grok is a terrific model and my work horse. I hope Composer 3 reaches at least this level because Grok 4.5 intelligence + composer type speed pfffff, wild times ahead.

You’re right though. It is terrific. (Btw you might want to look up what that word means.)

"that word" has multiple meanings. In context to a native English speaker, the intended meaning is clear.

  OED: A (adjective)
    1.   ...
    2.a. ...
    2.b. As an enthusiastic term of commendation: superlatively good, ‘marvellous’, ‘great’.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#790

Post by tigershark »

somenameforme wrote: post #767
fakedang wrote: post #762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think these typical slurs don't really make any sense. Corrupt, pliable and stupid are not slurs. > There's tremendous money and influence in opposition to things he's doing that he could easily cash in on if he wanted Is there a Big Solar or Big Wind or Green lobby that's comparable to Big Oil? Is there a huge lobby group for national healthcare? Is there tremendous funding for anti- Big Tech and Data Center mov…

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