They argue that the Chinese models distill US models as one of the basis of the potential ban. I think it's quite ironic considering even the US models themselves are using data out there on the internet without asking for permissions and in many cases even infringing copyrights...
Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
681–690 of 983 posts
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#682Earlier quoted context omitted.
But isn‘t the whole argument of „winner takes all“ already dead, if china is such a big threat that the US labs need import controls? Distilling or not, they are clearly close enough to the frontier, that the supposed „free market“ country needs market controls. That may work for US markets. But not the rest of the world. Idea: petrodollar policy becomes „tokendollar“, enforced by US military dominance. If you force…
The argument is - these models costs hundreds of billions to develop - to BOTH US and China. China is giving them for free despite not making financial sense because they want to weaken US's tech firms ability to compete - because China sees AI dominance as critical for their national security. The US also sees AI dominance as critical for their national security, and relies on a market economy and non-state-owned la…
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Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#683Earlier quoted context omitted.
The argument is - these models costs hundreds of billions to develop - to BOTH US and China. China is giving them for free despite not making financial sense because they want to weaken US's tech firms ability to compete - because China sees AI dominance as critical for their national security. The US also sees AI dominance as critical for their national security, and relies on a market economy and non-state-owned la…
> China is giving them for free despite not making financial sense because they want to weaken US's tech firms ability to compete - because China sees AI dominance as critical for their national security. Nobody is making this argument because this is a normal thing that companies do. It's so common it is named in business strategy: "commoditize your complements." There's a 2002 Joel On Software post explaining this…
> Nobody is making this argument because this is a normal thing that companies do. It's so common it is named in business strategy: "commoditize your complements."
It is common in business strategy, far less so in nation-state governance.
The reason you, me, and so many people in the United States still have a far better quality of life and level of freedom than most people in China is because it’s bad to run a country like a business, full stop. When you do so, you kill far more people.
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#684Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep. We'll steal China's IP as well so all of this really is just no big deal. Everyone is a robber in some way. Though one must ask, why are American models banned in China? Hmmm. > It's not that China won't come up with what the US are coming up with. Just a matter of when it would happen. I agree. All this discussion about China releasing open weight models is amusing. It's like ok they release open weight models.…
genuine question, what IP does america presently steal from China?
If it’s a question for me I’m not sure. I guess I’d like to ask what prompted this question?
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#685Earlier quoted context omitted.
But isn‘t the whole argument of „winner takes all“ already dead, if china is such a big threat that the US labs need import controls? Distilling or not, they are clearly close enough to the frontier, that the supposed „free market“ country needs market controls. That may work for US markets. But not the rest of the world. Idea: petrodollar policy becomes „tokendollar“, enforced by US military dominance. If you force…
> the supposed „free market“ country Good scare quotes. The US hasn't been free market in the Adam Smith sense in ages, if ever.
well free markets meant something very different in adam smith's time; what they meant by free was 'free from rents' whereas today its usually mean in the milton freedman terms as 'free from any interference' which is how i interpret the parent poster...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market#Classical_Economic...
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#686[flagged]
I feel the election that brought mcdonalds trump into power merely accelerated what was already the trajectory in this regard, but he did manage to shift the overton window so dramatically that people are willing to ignore the rise in fascism that's allowing the oligarchy to take control.
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#687How exactly would they even shut off Chinese open weight AI?
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#688Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
I didn't say "Both sides are the same". I said both candidates were morons. As far as terms, I don't like really like either side we have on the menu right now.
Potato, potahto. Your comment is indistinguishable from a "both sides are the same" argument.
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#689Earlier quoted context omitted.
That doesn't describe the candidates on offer though. Look, I just want good rational, wise, humane low touch governance without excessive political ideology nonsense. I'm sick of the wars, sick of the lies, sick of the economic yo yo of boom/bust, sick of progressivism and "woke", sick of religion being injected into the conversation, sick of idiot candidates put there by the wealthy. And no, I'm not going to preten…
I already am eating from the trashcan all the time. The name of this trashcan is ideology. The material force of ideology makes me not see what I am effectively eating. It’s not only our reality which enslaves us. The tragedy of our predicament when we are within ideology is that when we think that we escape it into our dreams, at that point we are within ideology. -- Slavoj Zizek Or, to slightly simplify: there is n…
Thanks for that, I will definitely use this quotation in the future.
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#690Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you been paying attention the last two years? With a few exceptions, he has unilateral authority.
I guess my question was, is this a threat to do something legal or something illegal
Whether or not it's illegal is typically determined a few months after the act in question.
Since 2024, SCOTUS has sided with Trump about 90% of the time, so most likely it's legal.
Still, even if it's later determined to be illegal, since the law presumes the president has legal immunity to all crimes committed in a presidential capacity, there's no legal risk, so the damage can be done long before the court makes it illegal. For example, Trump's global tarrifs were determined to be illegal a year after the fact, long after the damage had been done.