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Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

politico.com

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Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#121

Post by JumpCrisscross »

throwfaraway4 wrote: post #102
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a silly argument. Like yes, obviously it’s of less U.S. concern if one American is robbing another versus a foreign interest. We can deal with one whenever while the other creates constraints. The better arguments are the ones made in the article. Open weights increase competition and thus AI availability in the U.S. economy.

Whether or not it’s robbery is irrelevant. It’s the proposed remedy that is the problem

Sure. Great. OP’s argument focuses on the outrage. That’s focusing on the first bit.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#122

Post by 4wsn »

GlickWick wrote: post #75
Tostino wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask yourself, who seems to be the destabilizing force if you take a step back and look at the state of things objectively? There is some blame on all sides for sure, not saying it's black and white...but come on.

I think the major destabilizing force is the country that has been building the infrastructure for a hot war over Taiwan for the last decade while simultaneously blatantly funding the conquest of Ukraine. The US stupidly withdrawing from the world stage is definitely making this worse, of course, but it is not the catalyst. It's unfortunately a very likely side effect of a social media campaign by the same actor to m…

It's literally on their border and the history is akin to if The South established its own nation state in Cuba after the Civil War and China became its ally.

At least admit the double standard. I don't mind realpolitik but it's so tedious when it's not plainly stated and there's this veneer of civility.

Yes, the US is allowed to do whatever it wants to in South America. No, other nation states don't have a sphere of geographic influence if the US doesn't want them to.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#123

Post by GlickWick »

stanleykm wrote: post #113
GlickWick wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main actors threatening (and delivering) a hot war are China, and by proxy, Russia. The Ukraine war is absolutely and transparently enabled by China, who is also trying to actively destabilize the EU and the US in order to make its conquest of Taiwan more likely. Yes, the US has an idiot in charge who is threatening these things in response, too. However, unlike China, the electorate does not support him. His ele…

Sorry who is China threatening a hot war with? As far as I can tell the US is doing most of the warring these days…

Taiwan, while simultaneously preparing an invasion fleet trained to stop US and EU attempts at a rescue.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#125

Post by barbazoo »

ch4s3 wrote: post #47
yoyohello13 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we not there yet?

US real median household income has been steadily rising[1] for the last 40+ years. Life expectancy is rising again after dipping and plateauing for a few years. Employment numbers are pretty good given the macro headwinds. The US forms ~5.9 million new businesses per year which vastly out paces the EU. The US isn't without problems, but we're doing OK. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N It's incred…

Maybe break down those numbers by income and you'll see that rich people are doing fine, everyone else not so much.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#126

Post by GlickWick »

SecretDreams wrote: post #100
GlickWick wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My argument is that a major world power is pushing towards global conflict by simultaneously funding the conquest of Ukraine while building its own invasion fleet for Taiwan. Allowing them to also destabilize us internally is not exactly a good idea.

I thought you were talking about the US for a minute...

The US is building a Taiwan invasion fleet?

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#127

Post by ch4s3 »

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #96
ch4s3 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US real median household income has been steadily rising[1] for the last 40+ years. Life expectancy is rising again after dipping and plateauing for a few years. Employment numbers are pretty good given the macro headwinds. The US forms ~5.9 million new businesses per year which vastly out paces the EU. The US isn't without problems, but we're doing OK. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N It's incred…

More people outside employment than COVID or Great Recession. Inflation wiping out income growth. Family units replaced by multi-job slavery shows up as “improved GDP”. There’s the powerball lottery that one person wins every few weeks and then there’s the crippling medical debt lottery that many people are “winning” every day. Wake up.

> Inflation wiping out income growth

Real income means inflation adjusted, so we actually see the median income outpacing inflation right now.

> More people outside employment than COVID or Great Recession

There's a lot going on here. One factor is that many people retired early during the pandemic and are going to skew this stat. It's also worth pointing out that the labor force participation rate is ~62% and peaked historically at 67%, so it's not that far off.

> Are you ignorant or propaganda peddler

This is needlessly inflammatory.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#128

Post by adrr »

ctxc wrote: post #42
MangoCoffee wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US's court can enforce IPs. Didn't Antrhpic just agree to pay book authors billion for the recent lawsuit settlement?

Anthropic was asked to pay book authors because it trained on pirated downloaded books. What about books and art where the author/artist does not authorise AI to train on it? They do happily train on it, ignoring their "ToS". This is just double standards, a slap on the wrist to not worsen the situation with authors imo. You could also say the Chinese companies are doing the same - they _do_ pay for their Anthropic s…

Pirating millions of dollars worth of books would land people in jail. Government went after Aaron Scwartz for "pirating" scientific journals.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#129

Post by ch4s3 »

Lyngbakr wrote: post #112
ch4s3 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US real median household income has been steadily rising[1] for the last 40+ years. Life expectancy is rising again after dipping and plateauing for a few years. Employment numbers are pretty good given the macro headwinds. The US forms ~5.9 million new businesses per year which vastly out paces the EU. The US isn't without problems, but we're doing OK. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N It's incred…

But I think there will be a lag. The US has (willingly) forfeited some of its soft power and we may not see the impact of that immediately.

No argument there. The US has been hit hard by the global populist political wave in recent years.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#130

Post by dgellow »

GlickWick wrote: post #50
ninjahawk1 wrote: post #34

The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft. Now all of a sudden, the Chinese are stealing from the thieves and we’re supposed to care? No one cares, we just want cheaper AI models that are equally as powerful. They’re all thieves regardless.

I do care. It's an unfortunate truth that we're exiting a global peace era and entering one of (hopefully just...) implied conflict. Our biggest geopolitical rival that's been threatening a hot war also distilling the things we build is not a good thing. Trump is a huge self-own by our electorate sadly, but being concerned about a conflict between China and the US is a very bi-partisan concern for good reason.

> It's an unfortunate truth that we're exiting a global peace era

You’re a tiny bit late on that one

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