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Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

blog.ericgoldman.org

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Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#541

Post by ebbi »

aljgz wrote: post #523
ebbi wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't reply with stats, but I sometimes get in a bit of a loop watching the 'pred vs catcher' videos on social media. After having watched what would probably be hundreds (across the US and UK), you start to see some patterns on offenders: - The ones that are obviously mentally ill/brain development issues - they're adults but act and talk like a child. With some of the interactions with this cohort, some/many don'…

Thanks, as a software engineer, always a problem solver, who just follows an dreams of solutions to social problems (I've once led a software project for one of these, but not more), breaking down the mega category of abusers into subcategories with mechanics of their actions changes my mindset from useless anger into a problem solving one.

Yeah, I started watching those videos with uncontrollable rage to thinking about how can society change things to avoid/minimize this.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#542

Post by throwaway89864 »

danaris wrote: post #383
throwaway89864 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, will end up right-wing groups, or same-sex groups.

To be even clearer, genuine effective age-appropriate sex education absolutely includes education on what it means to be trans, gay, bi, ace, and every other part of the queer rainbow, and that all of these things are just as good and normal as being straight, cis, etc. Take your bigotry and stuff it.

There is a distinction between teaching tolerance, celebrating diversity, vocal promotion of special interests and recruitment.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#543

Post by miki123211 »

inigyou wrote: post #428
0dayz wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I'm intrigued, what was the moral panic about bicycles and Walkman?

And pagers?

https://newsletter.pessimistsarchive.org/p/the-forgotten-war...

https://pessimistsarchive.org/cat/bicycle

https://pessimistsarchive.org/list/walkman

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#544

Post by EagnaIonat »

basilikum wrote: post #456
EagnaIonat wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems obvious when you say it like that, That's exactly what happens. CSAM has two parts to it. The first is the known and most horrific videos of CP out there. These aren't shared, instead only hashes are used to determine if the image/video matches. It's next to impossible to get an mis-hit on that. The second is nudity and age detection AI. Apple has this on their devices, but warns the user before sharing not r…

What you are describing is indiscriminate mass surveillance. There is absolutely nothing stopping Apple or whoever maintains that listof hashes from putting things other than child abuse on there, like dissident memes for example. It also requires devices to run this spyware without a way to disable it. The natural consequence of this is to ban everything but government approved, restricted OSes and to outlaw devices…

> Apple or whoever maintains that listof hashes from putting things other than child abuse on there, like dissident memes for example.

That's the common argument and it's wrong.

The hash database is regulated and used worldwide. To get the hashes of what you mention into the database requires numerous people signing off on it. It is also a 1:1 match, not a "dissident said X" type meme match.

> It also requires devices to run this spyware without a way to disable it.

All scanning is done on the cloud. Apple operating system has a nudity detector when posting images, but it only warns you the dangers of doing it before you hit send.

There is no spyware.

In fact when Apple tried to protect peoples data from those scans before everyone lost their mind. Forced Apple to remain keeping users data accessible on the cloud.

The truth is, if your government is determined to spy on its population there are much easier and less intrusive methods of doing so.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#545

Post by lazide »

throwaway-blaze wrote: post #526
yonaguska wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full auto handguns are quite popular now despite being effectively illegal.

This is simply untrue, there are no full auto handguns legally sold to the public. Semiautomatic yes. And yes, some guns are way too easy to convert to full auto.

Switches. They never said they were legal. Rather the opposite.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#546

Post by lazide »

Hasz wrote: post #236
giantg2 wrote: post #198

Maybe my perception is off, but it seems like there's a huge push by the legislature and some people to do anything and everything to prevent CSAM, yet almost nothing seems to be done to prevent CSA. For CSAM, there's all sorts of monitoring, scanning, identify capturing, etc. But it's all after abuse has taken place, and it seems that many of the people actually arrested are arrested for CSAM and not CSA. This has e…

Because it isn't about CSAM, IMO. You see this with plenty of social issues, notably firearms ownership. The claim is we will restrict/license/outlaw xyz for the kids, but really, a data-drive approach would have focused on different things entirely (eg additional behavioral health services for kids, suicide prevention etc) The same technology/access used for CSAM identification can find copyrighted files, materials…

The literal president of the United States is heavily implicated in a giant CSA (and trafficking) scandal.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#547

Post by lazide »

nativeit wrote: post #282
Hasz wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it isn't about CSAM, IMO. You see this with plenty of social issues, notably firearms ownership. The claim is we will restrict/license/outlaw xyz for the kids, but really, a data-drive approach would have focused on different things entirely (eg additional behavioral health services for kids, suicide prevention etc) The same technology/access used for CSAM identification can find copyrighted files, materials…

When did we aggressively legislate against, search for, monitor, investigate, and prosecute owning firearms?

New York and California have been haphazardly doing so for decades.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#548

Post by Gareth321 »

greedo wrote: post #517
Gareth321 wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hitler was not elected Chancellor by the German public. Germany had/has a mixed-member proportional system, meaning that coalitions may form after everyone votes President Paul von Hindenburg appointed Hitler as Chancellor on 30 January 1933 after negotiations among conservative politicians who believed they could control him. The Nazi Party was the largest party, but it won only 33.1% of the vote in the final free R…

Your comment implies that Hitler seized power despite a lack of popularity. The historical record shows that Hitler was wildly popular in Germany, even up to the end of WW2.

I very clearly provided the exact percentage popularity he had at the height of his democratic rise. Whether you'd like to accurately call that less than a third, or "wildly popular" is I suppose subjective.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#549

Post by basilikum »

EagnaIonat wrote: post #544
basilikum wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are describing is indiscriminate mass surveillance. There is absolutely nothing stopping Apple or whoever maintains that listof hashes from putting things other than child abuse on there, like dissident memes for example. It also requires devices to run this spyware without a way to disable it. The natural consequence of this is to ban everything but government approved, restricted OSes and to outlaw devices…

> Apple or whoever maintains that listof hashes from putting things other than child abuse on there, like dissident memes for example. That's the common argument and it's wrong. The hash database is regulated and used worldwide. To get the hashes of what you mention into the database requires numerous people signing off on it. It is also a 1:1 match, not a "dissident said X" type meme match. > It also requires device…

> The hash database is regulated and used worldwide. To get the hashes of what you mention into the database requires numerous people signing off on it.

So, it's correct. What you're describing is a policy, not a technical limitation. The technical infrastructure allows exactly that. Policies can and will be changed and bypassed.

> It is also a 1:1 match, not a "dissident said X" type meme match.

So you can maintain a list of dissident memes just like you can maintain a list of CSAM. There is absolutely nothing technologically differentiating CSAM from images with dissenting political content. The database is an arbitrary list of material deemed hostile. Only putting CSAM on it is a pinky promise that will be broken.

> All scanning is done on the cloud.

Because there was so much backlash against putting spyware in devices, not because they didn't try.

> Forced Apple to remain keeping users data accessible on the cloud.

What are you talking about?

> The truth is, if your government is determined to spy on its population there are much easier and less intrusive methods of doing so.

Why is such a large political faction in the EU continuing to push for this surveillance in the form of Chat Control then? You are just stating this with no facts to back it up against all the evidence to the contrary.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#550

Post by abrugsch »

inigyou wrote: post #437
letmevoteplease wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not client side. Images just sitting on your Android phone are probably safe (although Google could push an update at any time). Your images get scanned when you back them up, send them over RCS, etc. I have even seen criminal cases originating from reverse image search - anything that touche the servers of the big tech companies, except apparently Apple, will be scanned using questionable AI and against a se…

You shouldn't trust any Android phone not running GrapheneOS or similar.

VW doesn't trust graphene to allow their apps to run on it :(
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