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Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

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Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#101

Post by minraws »

throwway120385 wrote: post #70
minraws wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To Nvidia the biggest threat is a capex cut from big tech not another company in the same domain, maybe some Chinese companies but people aren't going to be moving off of Nvidia for large deployments in the short term even if some TPU/Tranium etc is used it's not close to Nvidia. I have no explanation other than people, researchers are comfortable with it and don't want to switch.

Nvidia's software support remains "best in class" so they've become the default for a lot of this stuff. To overcome that I think you'd have to get a lot of hobbyists and by extension interested young people using your hardware instead of Nvidia. So you'd have to have good software support, decent hardware, and low hardware cost. People started with Nvidia because most machines had an Nvidia card in them, and Nvidia'…

True, Given I am young, hobbyist, and have written a lot of AI libraries for myself and small companies for local deployments, and can't afford any serious Nvidia hardware I will switch to whoever can get me a system with enough VRAM for a decent price under 1000$...

My best GPU is 5070Ti on which the best model I can run is Laguna S 2.1 118B with NVFP4 and offloading most experts on CPU with an expert router layer and 128k context.

I could kill for a 1000$ AMD or Intel card with 32 or 48GB of VRAM even GDDR6 around a 1000$ range but it feels like no one even cares.

With ~4 48GB cards I could seriously locally deploy most open models models with some SSD offloading and good 4bit quantizations with ok context sizes. But at current prices.. sigh... I tried begging Intel to maybe it's cards available in my region but alas no such luck especially not at reasonable prices.

Honestly getting an AI subscription feels cheap atm and working hard at solving and home labing stuff is insane.

Even in research no one cares about anything but Nvidia, because at this point they are expensive but they seem to care, I just don't see others caring though I have worked with Intel gpu and compute teams on implementing this stuff and they are very enthusiastic but well the companies themselves aren't solving anything for me as an individual, but they are begging for me to add support for their stack in software I maintain. The Irony is unreal, why should I even add support when no one can even use it.

Only company that had decent stuff was surprisingly Apple but their stuff is now too expensive as well. .sigh.

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#103

Post by DiabloD3 »

kyrra wrote: post #53
gigatexal wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Nvidia after they invested in Intel killed Intel’s GPU efforts as it could be a threat to Nvidia’s GPUs

My general take is all of The GPU design efforts are going toward Enterprise / datacenter graphics cards. They are just skipping a generation or two of consumer.

There will be no future Xe GPUs.

Druid, the 4th generation, has been shelved entirely, and all consumer DGPU products, possibly _all_ DGPU products, have been killed for Celestial.

Its likely the only products shipping with Celestial will be IGPUs for the next generation and a half, until Serpent Lake comes out with RTX graphics tiles from Nvidia, and then never another Xe product ever again.

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#104

Post by caycep »

Tepix wrote: post #26

I believe Intel has a winner with the upcoming Crescent Island GPUs with up to 480GB of LPDDR5 memory. A lot of SMEs will need local AI with large open weights models (i.e. >1.5TB of VRAM), but they don't need a watercooled 8x Nvidia GB300 box. Besides, it's difficult to deploy and very expensive. Crescent island is air cooled and likely fast enough for a group of users running something like GLM 5.2 or Kimi K3.

I mean, I sure as heck can't buy a nVidia one, at least not the founder editions which are the one that fit in my case...

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#105

Post by Melatonic »

tbrownaw wrote: post #90
bilsbie wrote: post #83

How come we don’t make chips with really small 3d printers?

The closest thing there is is e-beam lithography. It isn't really practical.

Isnt that smaller? I was under the impression e-beam is one of the (possible) next generation chip technologies.

Getting it to scale is the issue

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#106

Post by dyauspitr »

p_l wrote: post #8
fsuts wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tsmc are opening 10 factories in USA at cost of $265bn https://www.techrepublic.com/article/news-tsmc-us-investment... Intel staying strong is still vital for competitiveness though

TSMC also AFAIK is forbidden from setting up bleeding-edge fabs outside of Taiwan?

Intel latest is the bleeding edge and more advanced than TSMCs.

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#107

Post by Teever »

throwway120385 wrote: post #70
minraws wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To Nvidia the biggest threat is a capex cut from big tech not another company in the same domain, maybe some Chinese companies but people aren't going to be moving off of Nvidia for large deployments in the short term even if some TPU/Tranium etc is used it's not close to Nvidia. I have no explanation other than people, researchers are comfortable with it and don't want to switch.

Nvidia's software support remains "best in class" so they've become the default for a lot of this stuff. To overcome that I think you'd have to get a lot of hobbyists and by extension interested young people using your hardware instead of Nvidia. So you'd have to have good software support, decent hardware, and low hardware cost. People started with Nvidia because most machines had an Nvidia card in them, and Nvidia'…

This should have been obvious to me before but for whatever reason reading your comment made me realize something.

The hardware that nvidia is selling can be used against them because it can generate the code that is lacking for hardware from other companies.

So there’s a world out there where Intel or AMD just generate the needed software with compute from rented Nvidia hardware or the end consumer does the same, akin to opensource volunteers spending their free time reverse engineering undocumented hardware for the last few decades.

That’s if the claim that other companies produce acceptable hardware that is mostly just kneecapped by poor software.

If that’s the case there’s a distinct chance that we’ll see feature parity between the different vendors soon enough.

Unless the models that run on nvidia hardware are inadequate for this task, but that sort of raises a catch-22 — if the models aren’t good enough to generate drivers and CUDA type software what are they good enough for?

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#108

Post by dcrazy »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #103
kyrra wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My general take is all of The GPU design efforts are going toward Enterprise / datacenter graphics cards. They are just skipping a generation or two of consumer.

There will be no future Xe GPUs. Druid, the 4th generation, has been shelved entirely, and all consumer DGPU products, possibly _all_ DGPU products, have been killed for Celestial. Its likely the only products shipping with Celestial will be IGPUs for the next generation and a half, until Serpent Lake comes out with RTX graphics tiles from Nvidia, and then never another Xe product ever again.

Didn’t somebody claim Battlemage was canceled? But they shipped it?

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#109

Post by hunterpayne »

hparadiz wrote: post #100
hunterpayne wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia invaded in 2022, Trump was elected in late 2024 and took office in 2025. The out of context quote that kicked all this off was in 2017 or 2018. Somehow you picked the one year out of the last 10 or so that didn't matter for any of this. The really wild thing about this whole narrative is how unlikely this entire sequence of events was. Let's review: 1) Trump gives some rambling answer to an Estonian journalist…

Not by accident. By the immense sacrifice of the Ukrainian people and it's armed forces coupled with US goals just happening to align on Iran. I somehow doubt the Ukrainians mind very much that shahed production is now pivoted towards targets closer to Iran than to Ukraine.

I mean Trump didn't intend to help. But somehow NATO is in a better state and Ukraine is winning. Its only in the largely imaginary political narrative where NATO is somehow weaker. What is weaker is the credibility of several European leaders. And nobody here thinks that this was some master plan or 10D chess by Trump.
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