Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#91

Post by lardosaurusrex » Wed, Jul 22, 2026, 5:18 PM UTC

petcat wrote: post #30

rando1234 wrote: post #9

Amazing looking machine! $380 million a pop. Must surely be one of the most sophisticated machines humanity has ever built? A great achievement of European science and technology (ducks).

> A great achievement of European science and technology It's an amazing piece of technology but this is... wildly wrong. ASML is a multi-national company that licenses IP largely from USA and Japan, but also Taiwan and Germany. The actual EUV light source is developed and produced in California by Cymer, which ASML acquired in 2013. But ASML was only permitted to acquire the company under a strict technology sharing…

The US is currently aggravating practically every other country on the planet and writing like this only pisses everyone else involved all the more.

I'm not sure if it's wise to minimise the contributions of everyone else in the current climate tbh.

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#92

Post by haldujai » Wed, Jul 22, 2026, 5:37 PM UTC

actuallyship wrote: post #65

petcat wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A great achievement of European science and technology It's an amazing piece of technology but this is... wildly wrong. ASML is a multi-national company that licenses IP largely from USA and Japan, but also Taiwan and Germany. The actual EUV light source is developed and produced in California by Cymer, which ASML acquired in 2013. But ASML was only permitted to acquire the company under a strict technology sharing…

> There is a reason why ASML's next-generation research photolithography machine is currently being installed and developed in upstate New York, and not somewhere in the Netherlands. This is a wildly ignorant comment. The R&D lab in NY State if anything is an effort to copy IMEC, the world's leading research organization when it comes to semiconductor R&D. They essentially set and define the roadmap for node advancem…

Agreed. Berkeley / CXRO is the American beyond-NA research center not Albany NanoTech which doesn’t have a charter AFAIK. They are just beginning to install the EXE:5200 in Albany now..

They do have the xLight program which doesn’t have a true European equivalent but still is a strategic partner of ASML who have experimented with FEL in the past.

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#93

Post by UltraSane » Wed, Jul 22, 2026, 5:42 PM UTC

grumbelbart2 wrote: post #35

Lucasoato wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a reason why ASML's next-generation research photolithography machine is currently being installed and developed in upstate New York, and not somewhere in the Netherlands. The same reason that Cymer is still in San Diego instead of being relocated to Europe. Why is the Netherlands government even allowing this?

The supply chain both in parts for their machines, but also in terms of research and technology for new machines is very deep and very international. If the US states that a technology can only be used by ASML if they keep R&D in the US, then there is no easy alternative for ASML. That is true not only for ASML, but for the semiconductor industry in general. The number of smaller, specialized companies for certain to…

One of the best examples of this is how TOTO the toilet company makes the electrostatic ceramic wafer chucks that hold wafers during processing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIB49e_r1OI

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#94

Post by throw1234567891 » Wed, Jul 22, 2026, 5:43 PM UTC

Lucasoato wrote: post #31

petcat wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A great achievement of European science and technology It's an amazing piece of technology but this is... wildly wrong. ASML is a multi-national company that licenses IP largely from USA and Japan, but also Taiwan and Germany. The actual EUV light source is developed and produced in California by Cymer, which ASML acquired in 2013. But ASML was only permitted to acquire the company under a strict technology sharing…

> There is a reason why ASML's next-generation research photolithography machine is currently being installed and developed in upstate New York, and not somewhere in the Netherlands. The same reason that Cymer is still in San Diego instead of being relocated to Europe. Why is the Netherlands government even allowing this?

Because the EUV light source is an invention originated in the USA and therefore it is under US export controls. No light source, no machine.

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#95

Post by sroussey » Wed, Jul 22, 2026, 5:53 PM UTC

saberience wrote: post #60

petcat wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the secret magic of ASML and the Netherlands is just stealing US ingenuity is hilarious stuff. I never said anything about ASML stealing technology or ingenuity. The point is that EUV photolithography is an international effort. The machines don't exist at all without about 6 different countries contributing technology and expertise. ASML has certainly proven itself to be a very capable integrator of many internati…

Most of those technologies being European, including the most difficult to make components in the system. Why isn't there an American company doing this? Why isn't an American company making the lasers, mirrors, metrology, vacuum handling tech, etc?

I’d say Japan is a more important source than sources in Europe.

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#96

Post by sroussey » Wed, Jul 22, 2026, 5:56 PM UTC

mDyJzDPmBdG wrote: post #19

rando1234 wrote: post #9

Amazing looking machine! $380 million a pop. Must surely be one of the most sophisticated machines humanity has ever built? A great achievement of European science and technology (ducks).

Depends on definition of machine. Do ISS, LHC or ITER count?

Can’t buy and ship those.

I love how ASML machines are shaped to the contours of a jet fuselage for this reason!

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#97

Post by kube-system » Wed, Jul 22, 2026, 6:03 PM UTC

throw1234567891 wrote: post #94

Lucasoato wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a reason why ASML's next-generation research photolithography machine is currently being installed and developed in upstate New York, and not somewhere in the Netherlands. The same reason that Cymer is still in San Diego instead of being relocated to Europe. Why is the Netherlands government even allowing this?

Because the EUV light source is an invention originated in the USA and therefore it is under US export controls. No light source, no machine.

It wasn't just invented in the US, it was co-invented by the US government itself.

https://www.osti.gov/biblio/1413999

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#98

Post by deaton » Wed, Jul 22, 2026, 6:31 PM UTC

jbstack wrote: post #4

nasretdinov wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO it's competition that makes better products in the end. If either party becomes a full monopolist the progress will stall (as already happened with Intel I guess)

> as already happened with Intel I guess In which sense? Intel is neither a full monopolist (AMD, ARM) nor has progress stalled (we're still getting a regular cycle of new generation CPUs which improve on the previous).

Intel had something very close to a monopoly for a long time. ARM wasn't taken seriously for desktop or server applications, and AMD was unable to compete with Intel's top-end CPUs until Zen (and with it Ryzen and Epyc) came around.

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#99

Post by culi » Wed, Jul 22, 2026, 6:58 PM UTC

throwup238 wrote: post #32

rando1234 wrote: post #9

Amazing looking machine! $380 million a pop. Must surely be one of the most sophisticated machines humanity has ever built? A great achievement of European science and technology (ducks).

EUV was developed in a joint venture with the Department of Energy and ASML, Intel, etc called EUV Corp. It’s why the US can export control it.

Also Japan has a monopoly on essential EUV materials like photoresists and mask blanks and pellicles. Japan is also the only country in the world that can produce a number of highly specialized ancillary machinery like the actinic light systems used to inspect EUV photomasks. ASML also acquired its e-beam inspection tech from a Taiwanese company. There's also no way ASML could run anything at production if it wasn't for TSMC and Samsung.

Not to mention the critical role of the US in its development. The core EUV light source was invented in San Diego!

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#100

Post by hparadiz » Wed, Jul 22, 2026, 7:28 PM UTC

hunterpayne wrote: post #88

Zigurd wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2023 called...

Russia invaded in 2022, Trump was elected in late 2024 and took office in 2025. The out of context quote that kicked all this off was in 2017 or 2018. Somehow you picked the one year out of the last 10 or so that didn't matter for any of this. The really wild thing about this whole narrative is how unlikely this entire sequence of events was. Let's review: 1) Trump gives some rambling answer to an Estonian journalist…

Not by accident. By the immense sacrifice of the Ukrainian people and it's armed forces coupled with US goals just happening to align on Iran. I somehow doubt the Ukrainians mind very much that shahed production is now pivoted towards targets closer to Iran than to Ukraine.