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Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

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Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#31

Post by Lucasoato »

petcat wrote: post #30
rando1234 wrote: post #9

Amazing looking machine! $380 million a pop. Must surely be one of the most sophisticated machines humanity has ever built? A great achievement of European science and technology (ducks).

> A great achievement of European science and technology It's an amazing piece of technology but this is... wildly wrong. ASML is a multi-national company that licenses IP largely from USA and Japan, but also Taiwan and Germany. The actual EUV light source is developed and produced in California by Cymer, which ASML acquired in 2013. But ASML was only permitted to acquire the company under a strict technology sharing…

> There is a reason why ASML's next-generation research photolithography machine is currently being installed and developed in upstate New York, and not somewhere in the Netherlands. The same reason that Cymer is still in San Diego instead of being relocated to Europe.

Why is the Netherlands government even allowing this?

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#32

Post by throwup238 »

rando1234 wrote: post #9

Amazing looking machine! $380 million a pop. Must surely be one of the most sophisticated machines humanity has ever built? A great achievement of European science and technology (ducks).

EUV was developed in a joint venture with the Department of Energy and ASML, Intel, etc called EUV Corp. It’s why the US can export control it.

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#34

Post by stingraycharles »

apexalpha wrote: post #24
arcticfox wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A great achievement of European science and technology (ducks). It's a fantastic machine but the bulk of the achievement is clearly a joint European-American effort.

Then Apple M series is also a joint European-American effort, no? Since ARM is European? Weirdly enough it never seems to work that way in discourse.

Should add China to the list of pretty much all of them as well. It’s a silly take.

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#35

Post by grumbelbart2 »

Lucasoato wrote: post #31
petcat wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A great achievement of European science and technology It's an amazing piece of technology but this is... wildly wrong. ASML is a multi-national company that licenses IP largely from USA and Japan, but also Taiwan and Germany. The actual EUV light source is developed and produced in California by Cymer, which ASML acquired in 2013. But ASML was only permitted to acquire the company under a strict technology sharing…

> There is a reason why ASML's next-generation research photolithography machine is currently being installed and developed in upstate New York, and not somewhere in the Netherlands. The same reason that Cymer is still in San Diego instead of being relocated to Europe. Why is the Netherlands government even allowing this?

The supply chain both in parts for their machines, but also in terms of research and technology for new machines is very deep and very international. If the US states that a technology can only be used by ASML if they keep R&D in the US, then there is no easy alternative for ASML.

That is true not only for ASML, but for the semiconductor industry in general. The number of smaller, specialized companies for certain tools, chemicals and software is staggering. And they sit all over the US, Europe, Japan, Taiwan and Korea.

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#36

Post by 0123456789ABCDE »

mDyJzDPmBdG wrote: post #19
rando1234 wrote: post #9

Amazing looking machine! $380 million a pop. Must surely be one of the most sophisticated machines humanity has ever built? A great achievement of European science and technology (ducks).

Depends on definition of machine. Do ISS, LHC or ITER count?

no.

neither of the observations gp made is dependent upon the definition of machine, nor is it dependent on the inclusion of the examples you brought up in that definition.

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#37

Post by gigatexal »

Tepix wrote: post #26

I believe Intel has a winner with the upcoming Crescent Island GPUs with up to 480GB of LPDDR5 memory. A lot of SMEs will need local AI with large open weights models (i.e. >1.5TB of VRAM), but they don't need a watercooled 8x Nvidia GB300 box. Besides, it's difficult to deploy and very expensive. Crescent island is air cooled and likely fast enough for a group of users running something like GLM 5.2 or Kimi K3.

I thought Nvidia after they invested in Intel killed Intel’s GPU efforts as it could be a threat to Nvidia’s GPUs

Re: Intel Starts Shipping High-NA EUV Silicon

#40

Post by minraws »

gigatexal wrote: post #37
Tepix wrote: post #26

I believe Intel has a winner with the upcoming Crescent Island GPUs with up to 480GB of LPDDR5 memory. A lot of SMEs will need local AI with large open weights models (i.e. >1.5TB of VRAM), but they don't need a watercooled 8x Nvidia GB300 box. Besides, it's difficult to deploy and very expensive. Crescent island is air cooled and likely fast enough for a group of users running something like GLM 5.2 or Kimi K3.

I thought Nvidia after they invested in Intel killed Intel’s GPU efforts as it could be a threat to Nvidia’s GPUs

To Nvidia the biggest threat is a capex cut from big tech not another company in the same domain, maybe some Chinese companies but people aren't going to be moving off of Nvidia for large deployments in the short term even if some TPU/Tranium etc is used it's not close to Nvidia.

I have no explanation other than people, researchers are comfortable with it and don't want to switch.

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