honestly if they did what he said they did, it seems like it would be cheaper just to train your own model from the get go
“We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
121–130 of 742 posts
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#122Fable level performance, for much lower price.
But really, this is the USA getting ready to bring AI companies completely under the control of the Trump administration for ‘national security’
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#123Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#124So what is the issue here? Distilling is still fair, on the same level like Anthropic scraped copyright protected material for their training. So here robbers are blaming robbers? These claims are just pointless, everytime
Regardless, it was always inevitable—will continue to happen.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#125Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#126Didn't they just pay a fine for stealing all those books?
That's also the case where the judge ruled that training AI models on books could qualify as fair use, but storing millions of pirated works in a central internal library without licensing constituted copyright infringement. It will be interesting to see if courts consider training on data distilled from a model fair use. Assuming the allegation is true. Someone distilling data from a cloud-hosted model:
- Paid the model creator to use a publicly available product.
- Never copied or even had access to the model source code or weights.
- Created a derivative work based on the model's responses to their particular input.
- Trained their own model on the distilled output
That distilled output is arguably a collaborative creation because a distiller's prompts are their own unique intellectual property. So they never pirated anything. I'm struggling to see how distillation is copyright infringement. At most it seems to be a paying customer violating one of the license terms, perhaps akin to a "no commercial use of derivative works" clause. But in the case of giving away an open weight model, is it even 'commercial use'?
I guess if the distiller asserts copyright on the weights but gives them away, it's technically 'commercial' but even if they can win that argument, they're left with zero direct damages and suing for some value delta based on the alleged revenue they were deprived of. Is that delta the difference between the distilled model existing and the next best non-distilled open weight model existing? And then they have to collect damages from a portion of the revenue of third parties who commercially served that free model?
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#127Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So what is the issue here? The issue seems to be the US only likes competition when it is winning. Markets in Asia are meant for cheap labor and resources, they're not meant to actually compete. /s
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It's like they've read the history of the US and how it got to where it is in the first place.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
I demand my right to pay 3x more for AI access. cf https://www.reddit.com/r/codex/comments/1uyj6pq/kimi_k3_is_1...
But nobody really pays the 3x (ie. api) rates, except for enterprises. Everyone else are using the consumption plans, which are heavily discounted[1], possibly cheaper than even the chinese models, which don't do consumption plan discounts. Even in your linked reddit thread, the OP agreed with this sentiment. [1] https://x.com/SemiAnalysis_/status/2064815044085318040
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
I demand my right to pay 3x more for AI access. cf https://www.reddit.com/r/codex/comments/1uyj6pq/kimi_k3_is_1...
But nobody really pays the 3x (ie. api) rates, except for enterprises. Everyone else are using the consumption plans, which are heavily discounted[1], possibly cheaper than even the chinese models, which don't do consumption plan discounts. Even in your linked reddit thread, the OP agreed with this sentiment. [1] https://x.com/SemiAnalysis_/status/2064815044085318040