So, if it's that easy and fast to "copy" Fable, is it really worth that much in the first place?
Sounds like the opposite of the conversation Anthropic would want to have.
“We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
101–110 of 742 posts
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#102As with many others among these threads I don't see how the timing works out for K3 to have trained on distilled Fable usage. There should be at least a tacit academic acknowledgment of Kimi's own design efforts.
Distillation itself, however, is still clearly valuable - else competitors wouldn't pay so much to their rival on distillation campaigns or try to circumvent anti-distillation defenses.
As for the morality of it, if you paid for the tokens they're yours. It is already understood that you own the output. Seems to me like a variation of ordinary business arbitrage. Providers might object to certain use-cases or intention and try to craft terms around that, but that's hard to enforce at scale.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#103I wonder if this points at a “shared” future (or at least things will eventually converge there whether companies like it or not). Ultimately, if you’re going to release these models that are fundamentally built on shared data - it’s pretty wishful to assume you’ll be able to harbor that model and the data, forever, and profit from it. It also leads me to think about things like the original release of Fable 5, peopl…
We might see a future where the US frontier LLM vendors place really strict licenses on them. No consumer access. Only sell to enterprise customers in a limited set of countries, with heavy monitoring and auditing down to the individual employee user account level. (I'm not saying that this is a good thing, just that some LLM vendors might try that approach to maintain their "moat".)
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#104I’m certain they did.
The problem is… what are you going to do about it?
This is obviously an idiotic and dangerous Cold War and has no happy ending.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#105So what is the issue here? Distilling is still fair, on the same level like Anthropic scraped copyright protected material for their training. So here robbers are blaming robbers? These claims are just pointless, everytime
> So what is the issue here? The issue seems to be the US only likes competition when it is winning. Markets in Asia are meant for cheap labor and resources, they're not meant to actually compete. /s
[flagged]
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#106If 'distillation' means training on outputs then what is the legal concept of ownership of outputs? And, more broadly, is this something that could be skirted by doing it in different countries that have different legal structures? Basically, are they saying they own those outputs, not the companies that paid for the tokens, and only they can train on them? I suspect a lot of companies are saving their token historie…
The legal concept is that LLM vendors can put pretty much whatever they want in their terms of service, and cut off or sue clients who violate those terms. They have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason (or no reason at all).
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#107Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
I demand my right to pay 3x more for AI access. cf https://www.reddit.com/r/codex/comments/1uyj6pq/kimi_k3_is_1...
But nobody really pays the 3x (ie. api) rates, except for enterprises. Everyone else are using the consumption plans, which are heavily discounted[1], possibly cheaper than even the chinese models, which don't do consumption plan discounts. Even in your linked reddit thread, the OP agreed with this sentiment. [1] https://x.com/SemiAnalysis_/status/2064815044085318040
There are many consuming APIs for Hermes.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#109I can understand that the AI labs might care about other labs distilling their models as it can eat into their competitive advantage, but do consumers care at all? Aren't consumers benefiting from this practice by getting better cheaper models as a result?
They're probably going for the national security/domestic manufacturing angle. > Aren't consumers benefiting from this practice by getting better cheaper models as a result? Aren't consumers benefiting from cheap chinese batteries, EVs, and drones?
> Aren't consumers benefiting from cheap chinese batteries, EVs, and drones?
Depends on what country you live in I suppose, but likely a spectrum of yes than any outright no. For example, Chinese EVs are using a different battery chemistry and not putting demand pressure on the more expensive chemistry western manufacturers use
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#110Here's a site that asks the same questions to 22 models and compares how similar their responses are.
https://typebulb.com/u/lab/you-re-relatively-right/full
According to these results GLM 5.2 is very similar to Google Gemini and Kimi K3 is very similar to Fable 5.
The American frontier labs are not similar to each other.