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Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

fireworks.ai

361–370 of 491 posts

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#361
What is routing? How do they decide which is better? The only way to come up with a routing model for your workload is to send queries to all the models and then come up with a way to say which solution was better, often trying out multiple times for the same model + query to account for other statistical errors.

This makes you, an ai inference user an unwitting AI company with a non scalable product.

The biggest mental trap people have fallen for is the notion of “best” and, always using the frontier model. Instead you should just bite the bulet and choose the cheapest or the best. This routing dance is just tokenmaxxing in disguise.

Edit: Another thing concerning me is that the models themselves are not concrete behind their endpoints. Models can be arbitrarily dumbed down by reducing their inference resources. Once Anthro/OAI release a new great model, they are fully incentivised to dumb down their current models to drive traffic to the new shiny more expensive one. In fact they can do this for any reason. Once they switch things behind the API interface, how useful is your meticulously tuned router? Not much at all.

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#362

If you haven’t been really running and testing these models yourself, they are all benchmaxxed. No matter how close they score to frontier on whatever metric, they always fall apart in real world tasks and their token efficiency is ridiculously bad. Fireworks has incredible incentive to make this claim in a headline, because Fireworks hosting K3 for you is pure profit for them, unlike when they host closed source mod…

Totally agree with all of this. Most of the problems we solve with AI are not one shot, all the bench marks also miss the human components when testing. Thinking alongside with a human and coming to a solution is what Fable does better than most other models.

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#363

The irony is the Chinese are being very democratic with their models, while the USA tries to do central control. Glad to see centralized control fail on the grandest scale. Maybe we can learn a thing or two.

What you're seeing is the distilled (no pun intended) result of realpolitik at play. China's labs aren't as open as they are out of altruism, but rather to capitalize and undercut the monopoly held by U.S. competitors.

This is true, but when we compare them to OpenAI's repeated feints at altruism and nonprofit structure, the irony is plentiful.

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#364
post #276

If you haven’t been really running and testing these models yourself, they are all benchmaxxed. No matter how close they score to frontier on whatever metric, they always fall apart in real world tasks and their token efficiency is ridiculously bad. Fireworks has incredible incentive to make this claim in a headline, because Fireworks hosting K3 for you is pure profit for them, unlike when they host closed source mod…

Having tested K3, Qwen 3.8 max preview, Fable and Sol for the past few days, I partially agree. Don’t trust the benchmarks, and the Chinese models really are slow and token-inefficient. However they do seem very close to SOTA : I’d say roughly equal to previous gen (Opus 4.8, GPT 5.5). It’s yet another silly benchmark, but compare them here: https://senko.net/vibecode-bench/ I also had K3, Qwen3.8 and Fable (using Ki…

Could you check how many tokens the different models spent to do the task? With all the comments about Kimi K3 Not being token efficient I'm curious if your test confirms that

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The speed at which tokens are crunched, even on the same hardware, differs between models as well. Using more tokens is only a problem if they are processed at the same speed as with a comparison model.

Using more tokens is a significant problem if you pay per token?

Not if the price per token is significantly lower.

Also this arm of the discussion was about speed, not price.

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got baited by bad sampling settings. It's exactly the opposite. Go turn on min_p once it's available post July 27th and most of the problems you describe will go away.

What parameter would you advise for min_p?

Check out this’s recent HN submission: https://gist.github.com/Hellisotherpeople/71ba712f9f899adcb0...

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#368
post #367

Anti-China: K3 is propaganda and benchmaxxed, no matter how anthropic and openai reactor for these, it just a smoke signal. Pro-China: K3 is good choice for better and affordable choice to smash down the Big three ruling.

China-ambivalent: Open Models are good, Closed Models are bad. Not centralizing power in a few big American companies is good. China is who's building this right now, so we're aligned for now.

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#369
post #34

Interesting. So the latest in the technology now is this model routing thing. Cursor estimated Composer + Fable works much better than Fable alone. And here K3 + Fable is supposedly better. Interesting.

Those are different techniques...

Cursor's Composer + Fable combo was a plan agent + execute sub-agents swarm

Fireworks K3 + Fable router was dynamically choosing single model for the task based on cost+performance metrics

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#370
post #367

Anti-China: K3 is propaganda and benchmaxxed, no matter how anthropic and openai reactor for these, it just a smoke signal. Pro-China: K3 is good choice for better and affordable choice to smash down the Big three ruling.

I used to be anti-China, and I still think the Chinese government is just a highly adversarial entity that will subsidise, steal and cheat its way to the top.

However... American corporate culture has driven me to this. Fuck Blackrock and all these disgusting parasitical corps - they literally sold China the rope to hang us with and I'm sure as hell not going to pay a cent more for it than I have to.

If China can offer close to state of the art for a fraction of the price then I'm going to use it - thats what the globalists wanted isn't it? They didn't care about saving local manufacturing so why should I care about saving their stupid investments.

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