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Qwen 3.8

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Re: Qwen 3.8

#771

Post by fc417fc802 »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #756
fc417fc802 wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't pass the sniff test. Consider that the US was intimately involved with the start of the FOSS movement. Compilers and commercial operating systems are hugely valuable. Also consider that history the world over is littered with counterexamples. Historical China itself is rife with examples of technological secrecy and exclusivity. No competent government will voluntarily release (or allow to be released by…

The recent Stratechery piece talks about some of this, most relatably "commercialise your competitors" [0]. By releasing their models, they effectively sabotage the entire US AI industry, and given that that is underpinning a sizeable % of US GDP at the moment, therefore sabotage the US economy. That may not be their intention. The USA is also their biggest customer, after all. But it does show that there are other s…

> it does show that there are other strategies that might occur to China that don't reflect the knee-jerk reflex to restriction and control that Anglosphere governments have around tech.

I'm not sure why you think that is necessarily reflexive nor why you think China differs. The current cost benefit is simply different for them than it is for the US. I expect the US might do the same if the tables were turned.

Disregarding historical examples, this is the country that implemented the "great firewall". That alone leaves me perplexed at your position here. Clearly they are happy to restrict and control when it suits them.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#772

Post by eventualcomp »

Suzuran wrote: post #681
sdoering wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> human rights and all that rubbish Denying human rights. Classic. Sorry - you instantly lost any respect I could have maybe had for your opinion.

You are not allowed to discuss human rights until your government stops its unprovoked war on Iran, issues a full repudiation of the policies that led to it, and makes full reparations to the entire rest of the world whose energy prices you have driven up for the benefit of a handful of wealthy inside traders. Edit: Parent poster wasn't American. I incorrectly assumed their nationality.

Ad hominem is good for the heart, I hear.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#773

Post by tracker1 »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #745
tracker1 wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a western site in English where a bulk of users are in the US, which has an adversarial relationship to the US... where many working in IT aren't even allowed to consider Chinese services or products directly (even if what you're getting was half made in China or controlled spaces). I can't even consider Chinese AI tools for my own use on my own time on my own hardware without potentially risking firing or worse…

> the "open" part of this and K3, etc. is of limited use depending on how/where you can actually use it yourself. ... from servers owned and operated in the US by US providers? Go check out the list of providers on ex openrouter for ex the latest deepseek model. Some of them even fall under the zero data retention agreement.

I'm not saying that nobody can use it or consider it... I'm only saying a lot of people literally cannot/should-not.

For example, I'm currently working for a local government office on elections management software... It's a no-go from the get-go for me... AI, in general is not allowed, though a couple groups in the city do have copilot access.

Even if it's running on US hardware, without Chinese comms, that doesn't mean it's completely safe... there are complex attack paths that have and do happen. StuxNet was a long time ago, and it's only gotten worse and escalated from there. Not every job/position/application needs this level of paranoia, but don't completely discount it because you don't have to worry about it.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#774

Post by bigyabai »

villish wrote: post #749
bigyabai wrote: post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point is that the 1st country to achieve that leap will get to use it to gain advantages in literally every sector. That's still speculative. We have something of a basis for speculation with the way LLMs influenced software engineering, but it's not necessarily applicable to "literally every sector" of scientific progress. If their quantum leap is anything like vibe coding, then it will quickly become an unman…

Yes I am speculating a leap past LLMs. They are on the edge of what I would actually consider AI. I believe it is an inevitability and I'm not speculating whether it's in 10 or 50 years.

Can you substantiate your belief, or is it just a feeling?

I'm not saying that you're necessarily wrong, but you're certainly lacking evidence. It would be easier to buy into your speculation if you could explain what limits current LLMs, and how they could be optimized to create a step-change in prose generation or reasoning capability.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#775

Post by yanzhang0219 »

cnhwl wrote: post #583

I’m a developer from China. So, is this what Hacker News is all about? Whenever a model comes from China, the comments section stops discussing its technical architecture, optimisation points or real-world performance, and instead starts going on about politics, human rights and all that rubbish? To be honest, we Chinese IT professionals possess a genuine geek spirit. That’s why you’re lagging behind in open-source c…

[flagged]

Re: Qwen 3.8

#776

Post by Wowfunhappy »

jpleyden98 wrote: post #747
kelnos wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that Chinese companies and their government are much more intertwined than their American (or Western, in general) counterparts. It seems much more reasonable to look at actions a Chinese company takes through the lens of what their government wants, than it does to do the same for a Western company.

Pretty sure Anthropics models were directly involved in the bombing of that girls school in Iran.

That's not the point.

Can you imagine anything like the DoD-Anthropic spat happening in China?

Re: Qwen 3.8

#777

Post by windsignaling »

snowpid wrote: post #492
windsignaling wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is clearly an anti-China bias here. Show me comments demonstrating the same level of distrust against Google for open-sourcing projects like Tensorflow, Kubernetes, Flutter, Chromium, etc.

Chromium and Kubernetes do have their business function. Tensorflow had a business function but it failed. So Google is not a great counter example.

AI doesn't have a business function...?

Re: Qwen 3.8

#778

Post by windsignaling »

pessimizer wrote: post #499
windsignaling wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is clearly an anti-China bias here. Show me comments demonstrating the same level of distrust against Google for open-sourcing projects like Tensorflow, Kubernetes, Flutter, Chromium, etc.

> There is clearly an anti-China bias here. Yes. > Show me comments demonstrating the same level of distrust against Google for open-sourcing projects like Tensorflow, Kubernetes, Flutter, Chromium, etc. There's a search bar at the bottom of the page. Most people, including me, detest google and think of them as a thoroughly dishonest and sleazy organization. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to not boost China fo…

I always wonder who these weirdos are that look at commenters' past comments to try and deduce some fact and "win" their argument. More common on Reddit, but still exists here. Basement dweller-level weird either way.

"226 karma in 10 years." - What does that even mean to you? Should I be posting more? Does my behavior not align with your list accepted human behaviors for a non-Chinese?

The ridiculousness of your post shows how far the anti-China bias goes with you people.

> There's a search bar at the bottom of the page.

The dishonesty here is coming from you. You're assuming something exists. I'm saying show me. If it's so easy to find, wouldn't it be way easier to simply put this definitive proof in my face instead of this weird roundabout argument you're trying to make?

Re: Qwen 3.8

#779

Post by windsignaling »

thegrim33 wrote: post #526
windsignaling wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is clearly an anti-China bias here. Show me comments demonstrating the same level of distrust against Google for open-sourcing projects like Tensorflow, Kubernetes, Flutter, Chromium, etc.

Scroll the front page. Find literally any story that has to do with a major US tech company. Open the comment section. Look at the the top comment. It will be negative. Most of the other top comments as well. Trying to gaslight us into not believing our own eyes ..

Looking at the top comment about Google right now. Big difference between "their products/processes suck" vs. "these people and their companies and government are an insidious evil".

Ah, the ol' gaslighting you into thinking you're gaslighting me trick.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#780

Post by windsignaling »

venussnatch wrote: post #515
windsignaling wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is clearly an anti-China bias here. Show me comments demonstrating the same level of distrust against Google for open-sourcing projects like Tensorflow, Kubernetes, Flutter, Chromium, etc.

The chromium example is wild. There's an extreme distrust and contempt for chromium becoming the defacto browser and therefore Google becoming the defacto gatekeeper of the web.

What? I was around back then. Chrome/Chromium was awesome because we finally had something significantly better than IE.
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