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Qwen 3.8

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Re: Qwen 3.8

#751

Post by tesnorindian »

cnhwl wrote: post #583

I’m a developer from China. So, is this what Hacker News is all about? Whenever a model comes from China, the comments section stops discussing its technical architecture, optimisation points or real-world performance, and instead starts going on about politics, human rights and all that rubbish? To be honest, we Chinese IT professionals possess a genuine geek spirit. That’s why you’re lagging behind in open-source c…

Chinese open weights models have liberated the world from Western exploitation. Great respect for Chinese students especially those who returned from foreign countries after their graduation and their research on AI.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#752

Post by alexgoodhart »

cnhwl wrote: post #583

I’m a developer from China. So, is this what Hacker News is all about? Whenever a model comes from China, the comments section stops discussing its technical architecture, optimisation points or real-world performance, and instead starts going on about politics, human rights and all that rubbish? To be honest, we Chinese IT professionals possess a genuine geek spirit. That’s why you’re lagging behind in open-source c…

The United States and China are both extremely powerful governments with dispositions towards their own citizens and the outside world that are unequivocally despicable. I don’t think that the discussion of Chinese tech devolves but you’re right that China’s geopolitics flow into the convo easily while America’s does not.

This website isn’t exactly a forum for niche experts of every type. It seems more like a group organized around respect for the people who actually can speak at length and specificity about technology, while ultimately most of us are just well informed and tinker-level consumers.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#753

Post by tesnorindian »

adornKey wrote: post #682
Anonyneko wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably in Chinese, which would cut out most of us here.

Sounds like a decent challenge. Needs AI Translation built into the forum infrastructure... But I'd give it a try. Before there was AI, I chatted a few times successfully in Chinese only using some translation tools. Now with AI it should be even easier.

+1 for AI Translation within HN. This will help us to learn a lot across languages.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#754

Post by zftnb666 »

Qwen's models keep getting better. Same problem as the other Chinese models though — international payment is painful. If anyone wants to try Qwen or DeepSeek V4 without the payment headache, api-hub.cc supports both with credit cards.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#755

Post by dgfl »

WarmWash wrote: post #250
piguin wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My own experience is that the vast majority of programmers have experience with one model and maybe some short usage of earlier models from a competing choice but want to be using the model with the highest popularity and reputation. I've worked with people who actually had to test multiple choices for their team who didn't understand why they were pressured to select Claude for programmer morale.

When iOS users are given an Android phone, they complain about how awful of an OS it is. In reality, they just aren't used to it.

I realized how awful of an OS modern android is when I bought an iPad. I later fully switched to iOS and never looked back.

Point is, sometimes people just have different experiences from you.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#756

Post by marcus_holmes »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #746
marcus_holmes wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's say China gets there first, why would the CCP let it be released publicly? That is an insanely valuable advantage in everything from war fighting to economics and more. Because China is based in a completely different set of values than the USA. They look at the world differently, and have a different understanding of it. Your assumption that your attitude is pure human nature is deeply grounded in your cultu…

This doesn't pass the sniff test. Consider that the US was intimately involved with the start of the FOSS movement. Compilers and commercial operating systems are hugely valuable. Also consider that history the world over is littered with counterexamples. Historical China itself is rife with examples of technological secrecy and exclusivity. No competent government will voluntarily release (or allow to be released by…

The recent Stratechery piece talks about some of this, most relatably "commercialise your competitors" [0].

By releasing their models, they effectively sabotage the entire US AI industry, and given that that is underpinning a sizeable % of US GDP at the moment, therefore sabotage the US economy.

That may not be their intention. The USA is also their biggest customer, after all. But it does show that there are other strategies that might occur to China that don't reflect the knee-jerk reflex to restriction and control that Anglosphere governments have around tech.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977128

Re: Qwen 3.8

#757

Post by marcus_holmes »

breezybottom wrote: post #675
marcus_holmes wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's say China gets there first, why would the CCP let it be released publicly? That is an insanely valuable advantage in everything from war fighting to economics and more. Because China is based in a completely different set of values than the USA. They look at the world differently, and have a different understanding of it. Your assumption that your attitude is pure human nature is deeply grounded in your cultu…

"I'm no expert in Chinese culture" You've made that plenty clear.

What a bizarre comment to make.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#758

Post by DanielHB »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #318
DanielHB wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fear is not about the models open weights it is the erosion of training capability in other countries. Why train models when they do it for free? Until they don't of course, or they start doing what the US is doing right now by locking out some models to government only or internal market only. What people should be afraid is the rug pull.

What people should be afraid is the rug pull. How exactly do you plan to pull a rug that's in my basement? The only people who are in a position to pull rugs are closed-model vendors. And if a nation-state or other entity can't train a model that outperforms the open-weight SotA in a given respect, then they shouldn't waste electricity trying. A more-enlightened civilization would join forces and make the combined re…

China has been known to set up local industry, destroy competition through subsidies, jack up prices repeatedly. US does it all the time too with tech services (uber, airbnb, are the more notorious, but all big tech is doing it now), but China is better at capex which is why they seem to be winning this race.

The main difference is that the subsidies in China usually come from the gov, while in the US it comes from VC money or anti-competition practices from established big-tech companies.

If China were setting up international funds and institutions for training with participation from other countries I would be 100% on board. Other countries could provide funding and workforce too and have a say in how the models are trained and safe-guarded. I am not saying China should bear the burden of open-weight models alone.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#759

Post by allarm »

ykonstant wrote: post #645
epolanski wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he means rubbish as in completely off topic.

Perhaps, but I am struggling to find a worse phrasing to get a point across.

You just nitpicked his words and made a big deal out of nothing, ignoring the actual message. Classic.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#760

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

gazebo2 wrote: post #723
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every cloud provider trains on your data, regardless of what they promise. This is unlikely, and if true, would probably bankrupt whichever model provider got caught doing this.

These models were trained on massive scale copyright infringement, I really don't think they're drawing the line at training on the requests you send them

I hear you, but the harms were pretty diffuse for that copyright infringement, whereas large enterprises can and will sue if ZDR is not respected.
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