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US gas prices hit an average of $4 a gallon again

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Re: US gas prices hit an average of $4 a gallon again

#91

Post by packetlost »

TurdF3rguson wrote: post #88
packetlost wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think electric trucks are actually ready for the realities of long haul trucking, especially in a country as expansive as the US.

They're not ready, that's the point. An incentive like $200 gas is what's missing.

No, I think the technology fundamentally is not there and a decade away even with stronger financial incentives (of which there are already plenty). Between range, charge times, and worst of all: weight. A huge percentage of loads are operating at the limit of what is legally allowed on highways and it's strictly enforced. If you increase the baseline weight of the vehicle substantially, as you must with current battery energy densities, you decrease what can be carried by a single truck proportionally.

What will actually happen is literally everything will get more expensive.

Re: US gas prices hit an average of $4 a gallon again

#92

Post by TurdF3rguson »

packetlost wrote: post #91
TurdF3rguson wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not ready, that's the point. An incentive like $200 gas is what's missing.

No, I think the technology fundamentally is not there and a decade away even with stronger financial incentives (of which there are already plenty). Between range, charge times, and worst of all: weight. A huge percentage of loads are operating at the limit of what is legally allowed on highways and it's strictly enforced. If you increase the baseline weight of the vehicle substantially, as you must with current batt…

China is already rolling these out, so we know it can happen here if it aligns with incentives.

Re: US gas prices hit an average of $4 a gallon again

#93

Post by etempleton »

swiftcoder wrote: post #80
nozzlegear wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even big pickups get better mileage than 12mpg

Some do, some don't. As a concrete example, the F150 [1] pretty reliably doesn't. Big SUVs like the Jeep Wrangler can be pretty far down there too. [1]: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/50104.shtml

The example you gave is the Ford F150 Raptor which is an enthusiast model for off roading that is extra inefficient and I wouldn’t call the Jeep Wrangler a “big SUV” but it is an incredibly fuel inefficient one with terrible aerodynamics.

Re: US gas prices hit an average of $4 a gallon again

#94

Post by etempleton »

nozzlegear wrote: post #83
swiftcoder wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some do, some don't. As a concrete example, the F150 [1] pretty reliably doesn't. Big SUVs like the Jeep Wrangler can be pretty far down there too. [1]: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/50104.shtml

Oh interesting, I had thought the F150 was one of the better ones but I obviously need to update my priors. Thanks for the link!

Depends on the model. The example given is the most inefficient model.

Re: US gas prices hit an average of $4 a gallon again

#95

Post by etempleton »

laszlojamf wrote: post #35
petcat wrote: post #2

Crazy how cheap gasoline is in USA. $4 is still basically half as much as anywhere in Europe even when there isn't a war.

Americans also drive A LOT more than Europeans on average, and generally (is my suspicion at least) with a lot bigger/less efficient engines

Not so much the efficiency of the engine but the weight and size of the vehicle. Almost all new cars in the US are turbo charged 4 cylinders if not hybrids or pure electric, but US consumers do prefer larger vehicles which are less aerodynamically efficient wnd heavier, which is really a direct result of the distance and reliance on the vehicle Americans have.

Re: US gas prices hit an average of $4 a gallon again

#96

Post by etempleton »

cpburns2009 wrote: post #74
ponector wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lot's of European cars have 3 cylinders instead of American V8.

The majority of American ICE vehicles are 4-cylinder, not 8.

There are almost no new vehicles in the US that still offer a V8. They exist, but make up a very small part of auto sales.

Re: US gas prices hit an average of $4 a gallon again

#97

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

OtherShrezzing wrote: post #37
masklinn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of it is taxes, European countries tend to tax fuel pretty heavily. If heating oil is still a thing where you are, compare its prices to diesel (especially historically). They’re nearly the same product, the difference is almost entirely fuel taxes.

In the UK, farm vehicles use a specially dyed Red Diesel, which is the same liquid with a chemical added to it to turn it red. It’s taxed at a much lower rate, so you’ll sometimes pass petrol stations selling two Diesel from two different pumps, one of which is around half the price of the other. If you’re caught running red diesel on a normal carriageway, the penalty can be steep.

In Germany that red stuff is applied to all diesel, not only agricultural use.

And it's not the same liquid. From first principles maybe, but not after it has gone through the supply chain until it reaches you.

Anecdotical evidence from decades ago, when I had an oil-fired oven for heating. With a big barrel in the cellar, which you let fill by hose from a truck maybe once a year.

And hand pumped into a can every few days, and carried that up, to fill the tank of the oven. One year I was rather broke, and that barrel empty. And then came winter.

Thought I'd be smart, because it's just the 'same stuff', right?

Walked to the Aral maybe 200 meters away, filled a canister.

That 'same stuff' made the fire drum clog from the inside with the finest carbon, like those mushrooms which grow like disks from the side of trees.

That never happened with just oil. And that was normal Aral diesel, nothing special.

One can also notice a difference in smell with older cars. Just oil stinks more.

Re: US gas prices hit an average of $4 a gallon again

#98

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

hbot_ wrote: post #55
samiv wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 miles is less than 5km. Perfectly fine by bicycle. Oh wait.. I guess you have too much freedom and no infrastructure other than highways so you gotta drive and burn all the fuel, time and money.

I live in the EU: I pay at least half my income in taxes, have less freedom due to insane bureaucracy, and the infrastructure around me isn't great (highways or pedestrian/bicycle). On top of that, fuel is double what it is in the US. Whatever shortcomings there are in US society, it's not perfect in the EU either. That US freedom and infrastructure looks OK to me.

Only if you can afford it. And if you could, you could do that in Europe, too :-)

Re: US gas prices hit an average of $4 a gallon again

#99

Post by Tade0 »

wasfgwp wrote: post #69
Tade0 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving isn't nearly as important in Europe though. American households spend 16% of their income on transportation, while European 11% on average. https://itdp.org/2024/01/24/high-cost-transportation-united-... In absolute numbers the gap is considerably wider due to differences in salaries. And all that while cars and fuel are significantly cheaper in the US. In the co-working space I rent there are around 50 parki…

The majority (60-70%) of Europeans still commute by car. Distances might be shorter and their cars might use less fuel but on the whole its still more appealing option for most people (despite quite a few countries trying to actively change it by making it more expensive and leas convenient). https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

Indeed they do, but out of convenience, not necessity. And I get it - I much prefer driving if the distance is more than say 7km or when it's raining or really cold or really hot.

That being said I estimate that in Europe people who genuinely need a car in their day-to-day lives are closer to 40-45% of all commuters. It was noticeable in the first days of the Hormuz Strait crisis, when the government fuel subsidies didn't kick in yet.

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