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Orion Browser by Kagi

orionbrowser.com

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Re: Orion Browser by Kagi

#271

Post by mightyham »

WarmWash wrote: post #253
mightyham wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it is literally is just rational geopolitics. The story of the Russian invasion of Ukraine is not just a single whimsical choice by a mad dictator. There has been a decades long encirclement campaign by NATO which ultimately pushed too far. That's not to say that states joining NATO did not do so willingly and of their own accord, but that it played into a larger struggle for influence that disadvantaged Russi…

Bro watched a hot take youtube video and now is a geopolitical genius.

Unfortunately, being smart is a natural talent ;)

Re: Orion Browser by Kagi

#272

Post by mholm »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #115

I want to love Orion but it’s just too buggy. I went back to Safari

Yeah. I also noticed a fairly significant speed increase when I started using Safari again. Unfortunate. There are just too many features that Safari supports perfectly, that Orion either doesn't support at all, or has flakey support for. Especially the Apple ecosystem ones, which I'd think Apple doesn't expose, but Chrome seems to support some of them just fine, like 2fa codes.

Re: Orion Browser by Kagi

#273

Post by matheusmoreira »

dzonga wrote: post #263
matheusmoreira wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I put out a native ad - uBlock Origin won't work on it. since it's just an html tag or any other element. It absolutely will. I routinely block all sorts of elements on pages. If I think your is annoying, it will get zapped with extreme prejudice. > there's an article about cars - and in there there's a text item that says BMW or Cadillac has released a new V8 or electric sedans That's just normal information. I…

so when you come to HN - and there's a story on the 1st Page about a YC company hiring - that you can't comment on - but just click. to you is that an AD ? for all contexts and purposes it's an ad. is it intrusive ? no. that's just a native ad. are you gonna zap it ? most times - just leaving it there makes sense than going through the effort of using the ublock origin picker.

To me it's just a submission. No different than a Show HN.

Marketing people seem to think that everything you do that advances your interests is advertising. Maintaining a good appearance is advertising, because you're "selling yourself". I don't subscribe to that definition.

Re: Orion Browser by Kagi

#275

Post by matheusmoreira »

WarmWash wrote: post #248
matheusmoreira wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ads are not bad Ads are noise deliberately added to the signal. They're content you did not seek out and probably don't want. All advertisements are inherently untrustworthy: they're getting paid to sell you something, naturally they will exaggerate the positives and downplay the negatives. Conflicts of interest doesn't even begin to describe it. That's the charitable interpretation. One could describe advertising…

>You don't consent to it, you don't want it. By viewing ad supported content, you are inherently agreeing to see ads. That is the product being sold. If you don't want to see ads, don't load the content. It's very simple and plainly understandable. People using all manner of backdoor techniques to sidestep the parts that they don't want, kills the demand to create a product they do want. So rather than a paywalled ne…

> By viewing ad supported content, you are inherently agreeing to see ads.

I agree to absolutely nothing, least of all "inherently". Following a link to a website gives exactly no one the right to assault me with advertising. If they try, I will defend myself with every single technology at my disposal.

> That is the product being sold.

Not a single thing is being sold here. Browsers make requests, servers can decide whether to reply or not. They're the ones who send web pages to anyone who asks for free.

They do so under the assumption that we'll look at the ads they bundled with the pages. We're under exactly zero obligation to validate that assumption.

If they want money, they should charge people directly. If they send us ads, we'll delete them.

> If you don't want to see ads, don't load the content.

I'm under no obligation to "not load" anything whatsoever. Browsers make requests, that's how the web works. If they reply with free web pages, I'm only too happy to consume them. If they don't like it, they're free to return HTTP 402 Payment Required.

> It's very simple and plainly understandable.

Apparently not, since you believe they are "selling" web pages. They're making a bet that giving us free web pages loaded with ads will pay off. They're not entitled to win that bet.

> People using all manner of backdoor techniques to sidestep the parts that they don't want

As is our god given right. Nothing "backdoor" about it either.

If someone hands me a magazine for free, I'm not obligated to look at the ads to "pay them back" or anything of the sort. In fact I can just rip out the ad pages and throw them in the trash, where they belong, and then fully enjoy my free gift.

Re: Orion Browser by Kagi

#276

Post by ninkendo »

mightyham wrote: post #269
ninkendo wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let me see if I understand your argument here. Ukraine wanted to join NATO because it sees Russia as a threat (I dunno, maybe because Russia had just invaded Crimea and "annexed" it). Russia's response is to invade Ukraine, slaughtering countless civilians, and has stated that it wants to take more territory around other former-soviet states. And your reaction, to a country exercising its sovereignty, and another…

No, you clearly don't understand my argument. Ukraine didn't just disadvantage their neighbor. In international affairs, red lines are a common tool for expressing acceptable bounds of negotiation. Russia made it very explicit that if Ukraine joined NATO there would be conflict. We live in the real world, and "sovereignty" is not real; nations are not unconstrained agents that can do whatever they please. They have t…

Please look up "victim blaming" and understand how it applies in this context. If Islamic terrorists say "if you depict Muhammad, we will attack you", and someone depicts Muhammad and are attacked, we don't say "wow, they really shouldn't have depicted Muhammad, this is their fault". We say "wow, those terrorists are awful." Russia's red lines were never acceptable in the first place, and their existence does not justify war crimes.

> However, the US has pursued broad economic sanctions against Russia since the annexation of Crimea

Oh those poor Russians, they can't even violently annex neighboring territory without getting sanctioned. I feel so bad for them. We should have just uttered "tsk, tsk" and kicked them out of the olympics. That'll teach 'em!

No, the "economic tranquility" was the period after the Soviet Union fell and the entire western world was welcoming Russia in with open arms, and the economic integration was well under way. Until Putin came in and decided "no, I like things the way they were" and has been trying to bring back the USSR ever since. He doesn't want any economy he can't directly control by force. You think Putin wants economic integration? He wants his soviet union back.

None of what you're talking about is "politics" unless you think Russia actually has a leg to stand on with any of this. They don't. They never have. They're the aggressor here and none of the "warnings" they gave justify any of this.

Re: Orion Browser by Kagi

#277

Post by margalabargala »

greggoB wrote: post #145
margalabargala wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you click the link in my earlier comment, the author of that post goes into that including screenshots from the Kagi discord. It's the last thing before the postmortem. > and ban you I was wrong about the banning; I misremembered that.

Strange, I don't remember seeing the blog post link there - I must have just skipped over that. In general I found some parts provided interesting info (e.g. Kagi bought a t-shirt producer, Kagi started out as an AI company in 2018), both with links to Kagi's own blog articles; some I found a bit naive (the tax stuff, which can easily be the case and doesn't have to be a conspiracy); and some just politics between th…

The blog post certainly has a number of unrelated gripes about Kagi. At the end, though, it's very much concretely the case that the CEO of Kagi feels that "A lot of Kagi customers care about privacy. Therefore Kagi would never do something anti-privacy, because we would lose customers".

That is to say, Kagi's stance is financial, not out of actually valuing privacy. Usually when companies are in this situation, it winds up being that they care more about appearances than reality, and will do what they think they can get away with. It's a wholly untrustworthy position for them to be in and for the CEO to present it otherwise decreases my confidence that he'll do the right thing.

> Sort of a big thing to accuse them of and then realize you just "misremembered". At a min you could edit your earlier comment to note this.

HN comments are not able to be edited (or deleted) after a somewhat brief period of time, which had already passed before I realized my error. The best I can do is correct myself in a followup comment, which is what I did.

Re: Orion Browser by Kagi

#278

Post by matkoniecz »

Altern4tiveAcc wrote: post #188
matkoniecz wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Yes, Russia is in fact worse than USA. This does not change that USA did and is doing evil things. 2) At least in my case Russia is directly targeting my country, while USA does not (in general, far away empires are less dangerous than nearby ones) 3) In addition Russia is more resource constrained so getting the same amount of funds benefits them more 4) USA is also doing plenty of non-evil things while for Russi…

> 1) Yes, Russia is in fact worse than USA. That really depends on where you live in the world. South Americans, Palestinians and Iranians would probably disagree with you.

Yes, in Russia you have less freedom, more corruption, lower quality of life, mor thuggery etc and so on.

For who is greater enemy see my point (2) and I understand that for someone directly familiar with United Fruit Company type of adventures USA may be greater enemy despite being overall less evil.

Re: Orion Browser by Kagi

#279

Post by matkoniecz »

loehnsberg wrote: post #252
matkoniecz wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> send a postcard with your apology to the Kagi team why? Kagi is not entitled to be paid by them, and on free market they are free to not buy a commercial product and use alternatives and avoiding Kagi is trivial to achieve while avoiding products that were produced with oil in some way is impossible

Why? Because the claim is that they 'fund' the war by paying Yandex.

And it remains a true claim.

Re: Orion Browser by Kagi

#280

Post by WarmWash »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #275
WarmWash wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You don't consent to it, you don't want it. By viewing ad supported content, you are inherently agreeing to see ads. That is the product being sold. If you don't want to see ads, don't load the content. It's very simple and plainly understandable. People using all manner of backdoor techniques to sidestep the parts that they don't want, kills the demand to create a product they do want. So rather than a paywalled ne…

> By viewing ad supported content, you are inherently agreeing to see ads. I agree to absolutely nothing, least of all "inherently". Following a link to a website gives exactly no one the right to assault me with advertising. If they try, I will defend myself with every single technology at my disposal. > That is the product being sold. Not a single thing is being sold here. Browsers make requests, servers can decide…

Ok, I follow.

Now why doesn't that logic apply to roadside farm stands?

Really I'd just like a general rule that we can apply to any [value transaction] to determine when compensation for that value is optional.

So I can quickly evaluate that I should leave money for the produce I take, but I optionally can leave money for the articles I read. Or perhaps roadside stands are fair game for "they could put a lock and on door and a phone to the house if they want compensation for their goods"?

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