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Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

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Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#961

Post by 3abiton »

x313 wrote: post #518
softwaredoug wrote: post #478

So Chinese labs are driving essentially towards commodotized intelligence. Even if its a few months behind the US. Is this a classic 'commoditize my compliment' situation? They want to sell the hardware and infrastructure behind AI and make the software part not the value driver / moat? I can see it. But also even two Chinese labs sinking 100s of millions USD into training isn't exactly commoditization. It's still a…

If there was some grand strategy for all Chinese labs, surely it'd have leaked by now. I think its more likely that: - Companies can still make money from commodities - Chinese labs only have 5-10% the valuation of OpenAI/Anthropic, so massive monopoly profits aren't necessary. Profit expectations for tech companies in China are really low in general, complete opposite of the US. - Open weighting is a great way to ge…

Also at scale Kimi (or DeepSeek and others) don't have to worry about local deployment. The number of param keeps growing, I highly doubt consumer hardware will catch up. I am just glad Qwen team is still putting up great bangers.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#962

Post by sejje »

techjamie wrote: post #930
sejje wrote: post #908

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I beat it, so I don't think it's any good (I'm terrible). But it also wasn't just random or anything, it played like a beginner.

I suspect it's just random. I tried feeding one of its pawns my Queen and it completely ignored it, choosing to move a knight nearby instead that didn't take the Queen.

It's clearly not random, it will mostly take pieces if they're available. It puts you in check on purpose, etc.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#963

Post by WASDx »

yogthos wrote: post #715
rw2 wrote: post #713

The amount of scientific talent in China is astounding, also it's easier to be a fast follower than a innovator. Instead of limiting models and debating ethics like Anthropic, the edge lab should focus on lengthening the lead on China. The 2027 Chinese model could be one that beats the US.

Also, we shouldn't underestimate the power of developing things in the open. Chinese open models benefit from the wisdom of an entire global research community while American engineers working on proprietary closed models are working in their own insular silos. It should be no surprise that the scientific community at large would pull ahead of these small teams. On top of that, doing research in the open amortizes th…

> On top of that, doing research in the open amortizes the cost.

Can you elaborate on this? I appreciate the open models but don't see the economics behind just giving them away like now.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#964

Post by rmonvfer »

anigbrowl wrote: post #702

This might be the most impressive website generator demo I've seen: https://macos27.kimi.page Context from the person who prompted it: https://x.com/mweinbach/status/2077827886149439547

Wait until you see the bare metal version (by the same guy)

https://x.com/mweinbach/status/2078231897843302517

https://github.com/mweinbach/swift-os

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#965

Post by api »

glaslong wrote: post #435
api wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a thought a while back: sell large local models burned onto fused compute / ROM chips. Like cartridges for old game consoles. Slot (or probably plug into USB-C) and go. It’s an ASIC with the model wired into it so it’s very low power and fast. I’d buy these. Say $100 for a frontier class model. Maybe more.

I love this for the popular sci-fi trope too, where you see some ship engineer swap one glowing crystal "compute core" for another. We could have the photonic AI model ASICs for real!

In Gibson’s Neuromancer AIs burned onto chips were literally discussed and called “ROM constructs.” In that case some of them were images of human minds but with no persistent state or memory.

So basically a static model version of consciousness uploading.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#966

Post by bredren »

lossolo wrote: post #960
bredren wrote: post #955

I just tried this on the monthly $18 plan, having it do a basic task with its 2.7 model and then audit it using k3. K3 got into some loop trying to run docker and after maybe the 6th attempt ran out of quota for the 5 hour window which represents 20% of the weekly. I run 200 max and chatgpt pro, but I had to blink at that. K3 didn't even write out what it was doing or provide any sense for why it was pursuing the exe…

Have you used the same session for audit? so switched to K3? or used a new session for K3? K3 is sensitive to this, they wrote about it on their blog.

Do you have a link handy?

I used same session, set it to k3 model. I’ll look at the blog but the result was so bad I am prepared to abandon.

I should have saved the output.

I think maybe it was a mistake to not use open router.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#967

Post by richjdsmith »

pixlmint wrote: post #810
m3h wrote: post #86

> Kimi K3 is Kimi’s most capable model to date, with 2.8 trillion parameters. This puts them on the top of the largest open models list: Kimi K3 2.8T DeepSeek-V4-Pro 1.6T (49B active) Kimi K2.6 ~1T (32B active) GLM-5.2 754B (40B active) DeepSeek-V3.2 685B Mistral Large 3 675B That's one mighty large model! Moonshot is going to need the USD 500 million reportedly raised earlier this year to run this model.

Crazy how mighty GLM-5.2 is at less than a third the parameter count. Z.ai really cooked with that one.

I was just looking at the same thing and how flawed it is that we tie parameter count with "intelligence". GLM-5.2 is my go to day to day model because of how darn good it is. I had no idea it had a substantially lower parameter count over deepseek v4.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#968

Post by Msantolu »

lukebechtel wrote: post #386

> Chip Design > As an early proof of concept, Kimi K3 designed a chip to serve a nano model built on its own architecture. In a single 48-hour autonomous run, K3 built, optimized, and verified the chip using open-source EDA tools on the Nangate 45nm library. Within 4 mm², the chip closes timing at 100 MHz and sustains over 8,700 tokens/s decode throughput in simulation, packing 1.46M standard cells, 0.277 MB of SRAM,…

[dead]

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#969

Post by iknowstuff »

maherbeg wrote: post #947
anigbrowl wrote: post #702

This might be the most impressive website generator demo I've seen: https://macos27.kimi.page Context from the person who prompted it: https://x.com/mweinbach/status/2077827886149439547

I'm pretty annoyed with how fast this feels. Wish MacOS was this fast launching things.

You're so right. When did Apple take the wrong turn? What caused to become this slow at launching simple apps?

Gatekeeper? XProtect? Swift? SwiftUI?

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#970

Post by lrsaturnino »

bel8 wrote: post #938
lrsaturnino wrote: post #901

I'm disappointed. After all the buzz and benchmarks, I've tested with my personal benchmark that simulates real-world day-to-day specs for agentic coding, following instructions across long time walls, changing several files and code requirements with separation of concerns to build a complete Saas e2e - it reaches a similar rating as DeepSeek V4 Flash.

What harness? These can make or break benchmarks because of tool call failures/limitations. And is the benchmark open source?

Pi. The benchmark is local, mostly stuff from my work, I run it everytime a new model comes up. The top model rn is gpt 5.6 sol, followed by fugu ultra, fable, opus 4.8, gpt 5.5 and glm 5.2 (which is the REAL IMPRESSIVE one still). Kimi-k3 is 14th in the list.
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