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Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

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Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#471

Post by demosthanos »

theplumber wrote: post #375
dovin wrote: post #330

Just in case you were thinking of signing up directly with Moonshot to use the service, they appear to train even on API use: > We may use Content to provide, maintain, develop, support, and improve the Services, comply with applicable law, enforce our terms and policies, and keep the Services safe and secure. Customer who requires restrictions on the use of Customer Content for training or improving Moonshot AI mode…

[flagged]

There is a world of difference between:

* A company following suit with their entire industry in choosing a very generous definition of fair use.

* A company being the first to defect and actually break their signed contracts with enormous enterprises committing to not train on those enterprises' most valuable assets.

Training on copyrighted works signs them up to be a part of a system that is at this point too big to fail and places them in good company with all of their competition. Breaking their signed agreements would open them up to very well-founded and well-funded lawsuits for contract violation and give their competition a huge boost.

All of a sudden "we actually don't break our contracts" would be a selling point. No company in their right mind is going to let what should be table stakes become a differentiator for their competition.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#472

Post by bottlepalm »

lukebechtel wrote: post #386

> Chip Design > As an early proof of concept, Kimi K3 designed a chip to serve a nano model built on its own architecture. In a single 48-hour autonomous run, K3 built, optimized, and verified the chip using open-source EDA tools on the Nangate 45nm library. Within 4 mm², the chip closes timing at 100 MHz and sustains over 8,700 tokens/s decode throughput in simulation, packing 1.46M standard cells, 0.277 MB of SRAM,…

Really feels like end game type stuff - AI designing its own next versions, designing its own chips, etc..

The advancement is slow, but fast - like a plant growing. We really are the boiling frogs now aren’t we?

And the people with eyes wide open are us, and anyone that frequents this site really. Is this Milliways?

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#473

Post by zorked »

sebmellen wrote: post #276

My testing prompt for these models is by no means objective or repeatable (like the pelican) but it's a nice test of curiosity: > Impress me with a 1 page html file Result: https://ydaurtg3fdwhq.kimi.page/ Came out looking pretty cool! By contrast, Fable produced a moderately more interesting "live observatory" of the solar system.

I asked the same and got something vaguely similar. Then I asked for a demoscene-inspired demo in a non-traditional setting.

https://recherche-demo.kimi.page

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#474

Post by KronisLV »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #151
dghlsakjg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tokenizers also matter. Anthropics tokenizers will encode the same piece of text at a way higher token count than OpenAi, for example. That said, Kimi is competing against GLM in my mind, and GLM 5.2 is less than 1/3 the price.

GLM is actually quite expensive in actual practice because it's not very token efficient. I've yet to find a way to run it on a monthly sub reliably for cheaper than Codex. Neuralwatt was cheap (but slow) but they cranked their price. Ollama monthly sub is speedy but doesn't offer a lot of quota. Right now unless you're paying by the token, there's no cost based reason to use the open weight models for daily coding w…

> I've yet to find a way to run it on a monthly sub reliably for cheaper than Codex.

Matches my experience, I got their Pro subscription and while I enjoyed the model itself a lot and while their ZCode harness is also pretty nice, it gave me less tokens for similar amounts of money that Anthropic would give me on a subscription: https://blog.kronis.dev/blog/z-ai-s-glm-5-2-is-a-great-model...

I'm yet to try out Kimi, but if their subscription were to be anywhere comparable to Anthropic/OpenAI, I might just switch over because competition is good.

DeepSeek V4 Pro is really affordable per-token but regularly kept making mistakes in the tasks I gave it. I mean I could at least afford the tokens to go over the work a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th time and gradually fix most of the issues, but it was a very frustrating mode of work.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#475

Post by ljlolel »

kzrdude wrote: post #364
lvillani wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. OpenRouter classifies the Moonshot provider as ZDR. I wonder whether they have a ZDR agreement or it's a misclassification on their part.

OpenRouter's ToS also seems to allow them to store your submitted prompts anyway, so privacy advocates would have to look elsewhere anyway, that's at least how I understand it (and it surprised me).

TrustedRouter (my site) has open source proof of confidential compute that we aren’t looking at prompts or output

https://trustedrouter.com/

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#476

Post by mensetmanusman »

rowanG077 wrote: post #418
vonneumannstan wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Distillation is not an attack. It simply a way to train a model. Not doing it when you are behind is akin to snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

It is an attack at a sufficient level of sophisticated analysis. If you destroy the game theoretic first mover advantage, then you destroy the economic incentive to improve things.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#477

Post by energy123 »

bottlepalm wrote: post #472
lukebechtel wrote: post #386

> Chip Design > As an early proof of concept, Kimi K3 designed a chip to serve a nano model built on its own architecture. In a single 48-hour autonomous run, K3 built, optimized, and verified the chip using open-source EDA tools on the Nangate 45nm library. Within 4 mm², the chip closes timing at 100 MHz and sustains over 8,700 tokens/s decode throughput in simulation, packing 1.46M standard cells, 0.277 MB of SRAM,…

Really feels like end game type stuff - AI designing its own next versions, designing its own chips, etc.. The advancement is slow, but fast - like a plant growing. We really are the boiling frogs now aren’t we? And the people with eyes wide open are us, and anyone that frequents this site really. Is this Milliways?

GPT 5.6 Pro one shot a perfect score to the new IMO today and nobody cares. We are in the end game.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#478

Post by softwaredoug »

So Chinese labs are driving essentially towards commodotized intelligence. Even if its a few months behind the US.

Is this a classic 'commoditize my compliment' situation? They want to sell the hardware and infrastructure behind AI and make the software part not the value driver / moat?

I can see it. But also even two Chinese labs sinking 100s of millions USD into training isn't exactly commoditization. It's still a ton of effort with dubious payoff.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#480

Post by cesarvarela »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #313

The blog post is now online: https://www.kimi.com/blog/kimi-k3 - The blog post is explicitly saying that the model is open; that language was removed from the previously shared link - It shows benchmarks I've been playing around with it for the past few hours, and I think it's an amazing model. I'm not sure I could tell the difference between this and Fable in a blind test. The quota in the $100 Kimi Coding plan seem…

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