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Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

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Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#671

Post by sebmellen »

ryanbuening wrote: post #599
sebmellen wrote: post #276

My testing prompt for these models is by no means objective or repeatable (like the pelican) but it's a nice test of curiosity: > Impress me with a 1 page html file Result: https://ydaurtg3fdwhq.kimi.page/ Came out looking pretty cool! By contrast, Fable produced a moderately more interesting "live observatory" of the solar system.

Fun! It generated a mandelbox fractal for me: https://mandelbox.kimi.page

Wow, I like that a lot more than what it gave me! Shows you how wide the range of outcomes can be.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#672

Post by weitendorf »

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #502
energy123 wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same reason Meta open sourced Llama and AMD open sourced FSR. When you're behind it is a prudent strategy because it undermines investment in the private frontier. Once you're on top you pull the rug and go closed source. There are no morals in this anywhere to be found. > 100s of Millions That is utter peanuts given the stakes. This is competition between two super powers for the most important technology i…

Are you saying if someone gives you something for free, it's immoral if they don't continue giving it to you for free forever? The children's book "if you give a mouse a cookie" was about exactly this phenomenon

I think it’s one thing to give you something free forever, and another to deliberately foster dependency / suck all the oxygen out of the room just to abuse it.

It’s also not a binary thing. You could truly start off with the noblest intentions but succumb to lesser-evil thinking or unforeseen political/personal complexities, lose influence or control to those with less pure intentions, be bought or become a political pawn in a more extractive endeavor without realizing it, etc.

Reasonable adults generally understand that “free stuff” costs real time and money to provide, and that businesses can only sustain it when it helps them sell their products. Unfortunately that means “free” appeals most to people with lots of time, no money, or lacking in the reasoning/adulthood departments.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#673

Post by jeron »

try-working wrote: post #520
softwaredoug wrote: post #478

So Chinese labs are driving essentially towards commodotized intelligence. Even if its a few months behind the US. Is this a classic 'commoditize my compliment' situation? They want to sell the hardware and infrastructure behind AI and make the software part not the value driver / moat? I can see it. But also even two Chinese labs sinking 100s of millions USD into training isn't exactly commoditization. It's still a…

It's a GTM strategy: https://try.works/why-chinese-ai-labs-went-open-and-will-rem...

>Open sourcing models is not a commercial risk because barely anyone can run them locally

there are dozens of us!

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#674

Post by TrainedMonkey »

boredatoms wrote: post #655
simonw wrote: post #111

Pelican: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht... - rendered via the OpenRouter API: https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k3 95 input, 16,658 output = 25 cents! https://www.llm-prices.com/#it=95&ot=16658&ic=3&oc=15 (13,241 of those were reasoning tokens.) I think that's the most expensive pelican I've rendered through a Chinese model so far.

I worry that some model provider will go and hire artists to draw pictures of pelicans on bicycles to make training data

Worry not, Pelicans on bicycles had been ranking pretty high on your favorite search engine for a while. I struggle to imagine a world in which it was not already scraped and turned into training data by at least one provider:

1. Models need to be good at the questions we ask them, not the questions we could ask them.

2. The questions, at least partially, are correlated with information people consume.

3. People mostly consume viral content.

4. Ergo you should scrape viral content for training data.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#675

Post by ledak »

Gecko4072 wrote: post #438
jryle70 wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fable 5 is constrained Mythos, which came out before April

Sol came out (public access restrictions that Chinese models don’t have to worry about) just a week ago.

It was available to a selected group of companies for two months.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#676

Post by linzhangrun »

epolanski wrote: post #532
tomaskafka wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. More people should read Simon Wardley. Also China's silent but powerful support of Russia and its invasion.

China relies on Russia on energy. You can't expect them to start sanctioning Russia for ukraine, Israel/US for their middle east shenanigans, etc.

Energy is not the main reason. China would still stand with Russia without energy.

China could never support a pro-Western Ukraine in the first place. The same logic applies to Iran, North Korea, etc.

Although China cannot directly express support because of foreign trade, things like the Communist Youth League playing "Katyusha" on the day Russia launched the invasion, and the information direction on social media, have already made their position very clear.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#677

Post by oceanplexian »

vl wrote: post #581
softwaredoug wrote: post #478

So Chinese labs are driving essentially towards commodotized intelligence. Even if its a few months behind the US. Is this a classic 'commoditize my compliment' situation? They want to sell the hardware and infrastructure behind AI and make the software part not the value driver / moat? I can see it. But also even two Chinese labs sinking 100s of millions USD into training isn't exactly commoditization. It's still a…

This is strategy by Chinese government, so much of US economy is invested in AI. Releasing free or cheap versions of the models undermines US economic growth. It’s asymmetric strategy that makes sense if you are close second in AI race. If situation is reversed, US would do the same.

> Releasing free or cheap versions of the models undermines US economic growth.

This would be like saying that the creation of the PC undermined the 1980s economy because it hurt IBM's profits. Instead the consequences of cheap, ubiquitous personal computers grew the economy 10-fold.

There is an entire class of wholesale model providers that stand to gain from open source models. Then there are companies building platforms on top of LLMs that would otherwise be impossible with closed models due to cost. And there are entire enterprise use cases that would simply be non-viable at $50/million tokens, like OpenClaw, Hermes, etc.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#679

Post by linzhangrun »

woadwarrior01 wrote: post #338
austinthetaco wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is weird and reactionary. Lots of organizations are continuing to refuse to use chinese models due to security and IP concerns. Anthropic/american models aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Cursor will rebrand it as Composer 3.0 to assuage any such concerns, as they did with the previous Kimi models.

Musk bought it. From now on, it will only be Grok.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#680

Post by linzhangrun »

energy123 wrote: post #477
bottlepalm wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really feels like end game type stuff - AI designing its own next versions, designing its own chips, etc.. The advancement is slow, but fast - like a plant growing. We really are the boiling frogs now aren’t we? And the people with eyes wide open are us, and anyone that frequents this site really. Is this Milliways?

GPT 5.6 Pro one shot a perfect score to the new IMO today and nobody cares. We are in the end game.

This edition of the Fields Medal (btw, two Chinese mathematicians also received this honor) is basically certain to be the last purely human Fields Medal.
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