Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

kimi.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

521–530 of 1001 posts

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#521

Post by LarsDu88 »

api wrote: post #415
lukebechtel wrote: post #386

> Chip Design > As an early proof of concept, Kimi K3 designed a chip to serve a nano model built on its own architecture. In a single 48-hour autonomous run, K3 built, optimized, and verified the chip using open-source EDA tools on the Nangate 45nm library. Within 4 mm², the chip closes timing at 100 MHz and sustains over 8,700 tokens/s decode throughput in simulation, packing 1.46M standard cells, 0.277 MB of SRAM,…

I had a thought a while back: sell large local models burned onto fused compute / ROM chips. Like cartridges for old game consoles. Slot (or probably plug into USB-C) and go. It’s an ASIC with the model wired into it so it’s very low power and fast. I’d buy these. Say $100 for a frontier class model. Maybe more.

I believes the weights are burned as ROM microcode, but for an effective inference speedup, you do want to burn the architecture (matmuls, activation functions, MoE gates, etc) as well which will differ from model to model.

It's not as simple as a weight swap between identical architectures.

The speed gains are also from not having to route the weights through wiring like with ROM cartridges.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#522

Post by tomaskafka »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #489
softwaredoug wrote: post #478

So Chinese labs are driving essentially towards commodotized intelligence. Even if its a few months behind the US. Is this a classic 'commoditize my compliment' situation? They want to sell the hardware and infrastructure behind AI and make the software part not the value driver / moat? I can see it. But also even two Chinese labs sinking 100s of millions USD into training isn't exactly commoditization. It's still a…

it also undercuts American dominance, which is something China is always happy to invest in, even if it doesn't immediately mean Chinese dominance

This. More people should read Simon Wardley.

Also China's silent but powerful support of Russia and its invasion.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#523

Post by LarsDu88 »

villish wrote: post #511
LarsDu88 wrote: post #494

A really good startup idea right now... Use kimi k3 to reproduce the kimi k3 asic design and start fabbing it immediately. In 12-18 months, start spinning up your own cloud and start competing with the frontier labs ASAP. Who needs superintelligence with you have 8,700 tokens/s at near Fable levels of performance??? This is like the Bill Gates, Paul Allen moment, but for hardware.

It would be a tiny version of K3 not nearly as good. You need terabytes of memory to run the full model.

So build the full model with SRAM and all?

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#524

Post by avazhi »

vl wrote: post #207
paxys wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> its overall intelligence ranks second only to Claude Fable 5 and GPT-5.6 Sol Pretty sure ranking “second” to two others means ranking third.

While you are technically correct, in English it’s perfectly fine to say it this way as well. “Second only” here has meaning “next after”, not “number two”.

That’s not what second means in this context in English, and it’s incorrect to use it that way. This is because for something to be second there must have been something in first and only first, and so on; in this case there was a first and a second already, and you cannot amalgamate then because they didn’t tie (and even if they did, they’d be 1 and 2). Both logically and grammatically, it’s incorrect.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#525

Post by neonstatic »

energy123 wrote: post #492
softwaredoug wrote: post #478

So Chinese labs are driving essentially towards commodotized intelligence. Even if its a few months behind the US. Is this a classic 'commoditize my compliment' situation? They want to sell the hardware and infrastructure behind AI and make the software part not the value driver / moat? I can see it. But also even two Chinese labs sinking 100s of millions USD into training isn't exactly commoditization. It's still a…

It's the same reason Meta open sourced Llama and AMD open sourced FSR. When you're behind it is a prudent strategy because it undermines investment in the private frontier. Once you're on top you pull the rug and go closed source. There are no morals in this anywhere to be found. > 100s of Millions That is utter peanuts given the stakes. This is competition between two super powers for the most important technology i…

> This is competition between two super powers for the most important technology in human history.

Photonic computing?

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#526

Post by monster_truck »

energy123 wrote: post #492
softwaredoug wrote: post #478

So Chinese labs are driving essentially towards commodotized intelligence. Even if its a few months behind the US. Is this a classic 'commoditize my compliment' situation? They want to sell the hardware and infrastructure behind AI and make the software part not the value driver / moat? I can see it. But also even two Chinese labs sinking 100s of millions USD into training isn't exactly commoditization. It's still a…

It's the same reason Meta open sourced Llama and AMD open sourced FSR. When you're behind it is a prudent strategy because it undermines investment in the private frontier. Once you're on top you pull the rug and go closed source. There are no morals in this anywhere to be found. > 100s of Millions That is utter peanuts given the stakes. This is competition between two super powers for the most important technology i…

There's only one superpower left and it isn't America.

You ever seen a swan drown something before? It ain't quick

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#527

Post by throwa356262 »

avazhi wrote: post #505
frabcus wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, Fable only really came out 2 weeks ago, and GPT-5.6 Sol only 1 week ago. Yes, Kimi K3 appears a touch below them both, but above all other models. So I'd say a few weeks behind, not months now...

I used fable more than a month ago, what are you talking about?

Both mythos and fable were available in a preview version first.

The preview models were not as good as the final release. Thus training must have continued after the initial announcement

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#528

Post by specialist »

softwaredoug wrote: post #478

So Chinese labs are driving essentially towards commodotized intelligence. Even if its a few months behind the US. Is this a classic 'commoditize my compliment' situation? They want to sell the hardware and infrastructure behind AI and make the software part not the value driver / moat? I can see it. But also even two Chinese labs sinking 100s of millions USD into training isn't exactly commoditization. It's still a…

It's an attack on USA's AI tech giants.

Destroy any hope of profitability, prevent further capitalization, ultimately bankrupt them.

Hasten the popping of the AI bubble.

Drag down the stock market.

Put a dent in the GDP (alleged growth).

Cause investors to pull back, further depressing economy.

Devalue the dollar. Kicking off an interest rate doom loop.

Challenge USA's hegemonic role in the emergent multi-polar (post neoliberal) world order. (Gleefully supported by the ruling coalition's anti-globalist America First faction.)

It all makes perfect sense.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#529

Post by gerdesj »

energy123 wrote: post #492
softwaredoug wrote: post #478

So Chinese labs are driving essentially towards commodotized intelligence. Even if its a few months behind the US. Is this a classic 'commoditize my compliment' situation? They want to sell the hardware and infrastructure behind AI and make the software part not the value driver / moat? I can see it. But also even two Chinese labs sinking 100s of millions USD into training isn't exactly commoditization. It's still a…

It's the same reason Meta open sourced Llama and AMD open sourced FSR. When you're behind it is a prudent strategy because it undermines investment in the private frontier. Once you're on top you pull the rug and go closed source. There are no morals in this anywhere to be found. > 100s of Millions That is utter peanuts given the stakes. This is competition between two super powers for the most important technology i…

"most important technology in human history"

So far it rates "quite important" and certainly not "paradigm shift".

I've just spent most of the day wading through vibed blogs and what not to glean info on ... setting up LLMs! The content on the web is already in a parlous state and rapidly getting nicely but rather the same presentation and mostly right but somewhat wrong, often in crucial parts.

On the bright side I did find an absolute belter of a vibed site and it was only mildly wrong but I was able to sort that bit out and to be fair I think it was written up by an expert with help from a LLM and had a genuine human mistak in it.

Anyway, I suggest you might like to look at the internet as a whole as a paradigm shift and reserve judgement on LLMs and this decade's version of AI.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#530

Post by all2 »

cromka wrote: post #312
austinthetaco wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is weird and reactionary. Lots of organizations are continuing to refuse to use chinese models due to security and IP concerns. Anthropic/american models aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

> Lots of organizations are continuing to refuse to use chinese models due to security and IP concerns This is such a common omission: the Chinese models are open, you can host them yourself on your premises. So privacy and independence.

For several export controlled industries in the United States, even self-hosting a Chinese model is a non-starter.
Post reply on HN