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Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

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Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#651

Post by SilverSlash »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #298
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #173

On the first try, Kimi K3 just found the source of a bug that Fable 5 hasn't been able to pinpoint in multiple attempts. It's just one anecdote, and I haven't used K3 much yet, but so far it's looking extremely promising.

Update: the subscription limits are pretty brutal. My first impression is that the $100 subscription eats into the quota at a pace similar to the $200 Anthropic subscriptions when using Fable. But the model itself is amazing. I think I might put this above Opus 4.8.

I wonder if Anthropic just has better drafter models for speculative decoding and more efficient prompt caching in their agent harness.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#652

Post by hgoel »

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #502
energy123 wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same reason Meta open sourced Llama and AMD open sourced FSR. When you're behind it is a prudent strategy because it undermines investment in the private frontier. Once you're on top you pull the rug and go closed source. There are no morals in this anywhere to be found. > 100s of Millions That is utter peanuts given the stakes. This is competition between two super powers for the most important technology i…

Are you saying if someone gives you something for free, it's immoral if they don't continue giving it to you for free forever? The children's book "if you give a mouse a cookie" was about exactly this phenomenon

I think what they're saying is that any morality related arguments during the free phase are irrelevant because their actions are not based in morality. Put differently, they aren't giving you something for free out of the goodness of their hearts.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#653

Post by weitendorf »

zkmon wrote: post #619
vl wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is strategy by Chinese government, so much of US economy is invested in AI. Releasing free or cheap versions of the models undermines US economic growth. It’s asymmetric strategy that makes sense if you are close second in AI race. If situation is reversed, US would do the same.

It's exactly the same strategy followed by the Silicon Valley for the past 3 decades to beat the IBM-era companies. Google gave everything free. Social media stuff was free. Video calls are free. Bloggers gave content for free. A lot ot open-source product developers did managed offerings of the free products.

Free + Open is simply how you earn credibility and user trust when you don’t already have it.

That doesn’t mean the trust is unearned once gained, or a bait and switch, or purely Machiavellian either btw.

Consumers and businesses need credible branding to feel like they can trust vendors who provide them with the products they value or deem mission-critical, because it creates accountability and makes it less risky to depend on.

Open source addresses the credibility/accountability/branding/counterparty problems simultaneously, and adds to a permanent intellectual commons we all benefit from. It’s legitimately just Good

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#654

Post by SilverSlash »

pietz wrote: post #377
dovin wrote: post #330

Just in case you were thinking of signing up directly with Moonshot to use the service, they appear to train even on API use: > We may use Content to provide, maintain, develop, support, and improve the Services, comply with applicable law, enforce our terms and policies, and keep the Services safe and secure. Customer who requires restrictions on the use of Customer Content for training or improving Moonshot AI mode…

[flagged]

Yes, but open weights means you don't have to use their cloud providers. Someone in the US can host the model on their own infra.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#655

Post by boredatoms »

simonw wrote: post #111

Pelican: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht... - rendered via the OpenRouter API: https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k3 95 input, 16,658 output = 25 cents! https://www.llm-prices.com/#it=95&ot=16658&ic=3&oc=15 (13,241 of those were reasoning tokens.) I think that's the most expensive pelican I've rendered through a Chinese model so far.

I worry that some model provider will go and hire artists to draw pictures of pelicans on bicycles to make training data

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#656

Post by est »

Cantinflas wrote: post #433
api wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a thought a while back: sell large local models burned onto fused compute / ROM chips. Like cartridges for old game consoles. Slot (or probably plug into USB-C) and go. It’s an ASIC with the model wired into it so it’s very low power and fast. I’d buy these. Say $100 for a frontier class model. Maybe more.

You need terabytes of memory to run a frontier class model

If you look closely, 80% of those terabytes of memory is stationary model weights.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#657

Post by linzhangrun »

Gecko4072 wrote: post #180

Very interesting to see how Gemini 3.5 Pro stacks up against this new wave of models. Hope they have something similar to a Gemini 3.1 moment soon. Their speciality has always been math and multi modal intelligence and the new models are recently all very coding focused.

Gemini 3.5 Pro has been delayed twice, originally said to be released in June. Not holding out hope.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#658

Post by c0rruptbytes »

softwaredoug wrote: post #478

So Chinese labs are driving essentially towards commodotized intelligence. Even if its a few months behind the US. Is this a classic 'commoditize my compliment' situation? They want to sell the hardware and infrastructure behind AI and make the software part not the value driver / moat? I can see it. But also even two Chinese labs sinking 100s of millions USD into training isn't exactly commoditization. It's still a…

few months behind? 5.6 came out last week and kimi is benching around the same right now

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#659

Post by OccamsMirror »

energy123 wrote: post #492
softwaredoug wrote: post #478

So Chinese labs are driving essentially towards commodotized intelligence. Even if its a few months behind the US. Is this a classic 'commoditize my compliment' situation? They want to sell the hardware and infrastructure behind AI and make the software part not the value driver / moat? I can see it. But also even two Chinese labs sinking 100s of millions USD into training isn't exactly commoditization. It's still a…

It's the same reason Meta open sourced Llama and AMD open sourced FSR. When you're behind it is a prudent strategy because it undermines investment in the private frontier. Once you're on top you pull the rug and go closed source. There are no morals in this anywhere to be found. > 100s of Millions That is utter peanuts given the stakes. This is competition between two super powers for the most important technology i…

> most important technology in human history.

Do you really believe this?

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#660

Post by anon373839 »

wolttam wrote: post #106
sudosysgen wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says weights will be released in the coming days, and hints it's likely around 50-70B active params.

It did say that, but it doesn't any longer.

They are still describing it as open source:

> Kimi K3 is the first open-source model to reach 2.8 trillion parameters.

https://platform.kimi.ai/docs/guide/kimi-k3-quickstart

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