371–380 of 1001 posts
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Interesting. OpenRouter classifies the Moonshot provider as ZDR. I wonder whether they have a ZDR agreement or it's a misclassification on their part.
Why risk it either way if they provide weights for others to run this? Am I being overly cautious not wanting to send my data to Chinese companies?
Kimi K3 blog is up: https://www.kimi.com/blog/kimi-k3 2.8T param open model, 1M context, native vision. Weights releasing by July 27 with technical report. Launching with max thinking effort by default; low/high effort modes coming in future updates.
These benchmark numbers are insane. The days when China was 6 months behind are over? How are they doing this with so much less resources than the US??? I have so much respect for the researchers there
Pelican: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht... - rendered via the OpenRouter API: https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k3 95 input, 16,658 output = 25 cents! https://www.llm-prices.com/#it=95&ot=16658&ic=3&oc=15 (13,241 of those were reasoning tokens.) I think that's the most expensive pelican I've rendered through a Chinese model so far.
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> Maybe another DeepSeek moment right here. Surely not... What made DeepSeek disruptive was that the cost was 10X lower. In this case, the cost is about 2X lower the Sol I think? At 2X, you're pretty close to the error margins due to token efficiency etc... I'd say this is "on trend" for open models catching up to frontier labs, but its not a "change in the trend" like DeepSeek was IMO.
DeepSeek didn’t really change any trends though, unless you count the stock market. It was impressive work, but models were commoditizing and inference costs were dropping rapidly already. They were neither the first nor the last 10x optimization, from what I’ve seen.
Just in case you were thinking of signing up directly with Moonshot to use the service, they appear to train even on API use: > We may use Content to provide, maintain, develop, support, and improve the Services, comply with applicable law, enforce our terms and policies, and keep the Services safe and secure. Customer who requires restrictions on the use of Customer Content for training or improving Moonshot AI mode…
Just in case you were thinking of signing up directly with Moonshot to use the service, they appear to train even on API use: > We may use Content to provide, maintain, develop, support, and improve the Services, comply with applicable law, enforce our terms and policies, and keep the Services safe and secure. Customer who requires restrictions on the use of Customer Content for training or improving Moonshot AI mode…
Some official benchmark numbers posted in Chinese social media (I am sure they will publish an English blogpost later too): https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/V4xhEIy8xDXSMDPrPkmUAQ Generally looks like a Sol/Fable tier model, better across the board than Opus 4.8. (Edit) English blogpost is up now: https://www.kimi.com/blog/kimi-k3
Meh, not fable/sol tier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSlV206xPqM
https://nitter.net/synthwavedd/status/2077537805715005724#m
(As an aside, I don't know how it was professional of Arena to unmask an unreleased cloaked model on their platform. Also practically, upstream could have been A/B testing multiple variants under same endpoint, casting validity of such pre-announcement tests into question)
Just in case you were thinking of signing up directly with Moonshot to use the service, they appear to train even on API use: > We may use Content to provide, maintain, develop, support, and improve the Services, comply with applicable law, enforce our terms and policies, and keep the Services safe and secure. Customer who requires restrictions on the use of Customer Content for training or improving Moonshot AI mode…
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No they're not. It would end both companies if they were ever found to be doing that.
Their terms are clear - if you use the coding plans they can[0] train in return. Enterprise and API, absolutely not.
The argument here is that with the Chinese labs you have zero legal recourse.
[0] opt-in, thanks
Just in case you were thinking of signing up directly with Moonshot to use the service, they appear to train even on API use: > We may use Content to provide, maintain, develop, support, and improve the Services, comply with applicable law, enforce our terms and policies, and keep the Services safe and secure. Customer who requires restrictions on the use of Customer Content for training or improving Moonshot AI mode…
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So in your opinion, they are training on your data even if you toggle the "don't train on my data" checkbox off?
That's a bold assertion.